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View Full Version : Wbox niteparts group buy part II



TTC
02-27-2009, 04:39 PM
If anyone wants a bellhousing nows a good time to speak up. Tom I know u want one.

650NZ $ or 570 if >5 orders, 70 to ship roughly.

max attack
02-27-2009, 06:53 PM
I believe I'm the Tom your refering too?.

As a matter of fact I just dropped a T-50 and W58 off today at a machine shop to measure up for an adapter,I like the idea of using the stock flywheel,fork and throwout bearing etc.

TTC
02-27-2009, 08:02 PM
Tom any idea when that will be completed and how much? Maybe they could make two so that my buddy can use one as well. Actually maybe 3.

nusneak
02-27-2009, 10:20 PM
max_attack: I would also be interested in one of those depending on price too.

widebodystarlet
02-27-2009, 10:22 PM
w58 setup uses stock w58 fork does it not? or do you mean stock t50 fork? I just finished settin up my niteparts bellhousing and im using the w58 fork, its a tight fit but should still work, just gotta sort out the slave cylinder, not sure which one to use...

dano
02-28-2009, 12:54 AM
I believe I'm the Tom your refering too?.

As a matter of fact I just dropped a T-50 and W58 off today at a machine shop to measure up for an adapter,I like the idea of using the stock flywheel,fork and throwout bearing etc.

i'd also be very interested in this as well - let us know!

rob rayne
02-28-2009, 01:35 AM
that already excists at brd racing. the t50 from the 3tc and t50 from 4a are the same. they make a adaptor for 100 bucks.
http://www.brdracing.com/t50_t40_w50_drivetrain.htm

thanks to robk for the heads up.

TTC
02-28-2009, 08:16 AM
w58 setup uses stock w58 fork does it not? or do you mean stock t50 fork? I just finished settin up my niteparts bellhousing and im using the w58 fork, its a tight fit but should still work, just gotta sort out the slave cylinder, not sure which one to use...

Just use the stock gts slave, OH and Rob the 3tc t50 is the same yes, so I guess you could use the 3tc adaptor with a t50 bellhousing. BUT I duno if the depth would be different thus changing the spacing of the throwouts/input shaft. I suggest that you guys consider letting rob test fit it on to a 4age first.

max attack
02-28-2009, 06:10 PM
When I e-mailed brd it sounded like it wouldn't work,forget why exactly-I'll see if I have the message from them still.

I have no idea just let about costs,once we have the template made up then reproducing a few shouldn't be all that bad.

And yes the idea is to use the stock bell,fork,throwout etc etc,its only the trans thats different.

I'll go hunting now for the brd reply.

max attack
02-28-2009, 06:17 PM
Ok I found it,the adapter they make is for the W50 only-I read somewhere at the time the W50 was different than the W55/W58 in its mounting flange.When I asked him to confirm he said I need to send him a W55/W58 trans and he'd make an adapter,I took that as confirmation the mounting flange is different.
Anyone know for sure?.

max attack
02-28-2009, 06:32 PM
http://users.tpg.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/gearboxes.html

That confirms what I remembered,the steel case W50 is an oddball and not interchangeable with any other W series trans.

I'll talk with the machine shop guy about making say a half dozen units and coming up with a price.I don't know if he can make them any cheaper than the $100 us that BRD wants but...you don't know if you ask.

Rob.K
02-28-2009, 07:37 PM
It's good you guys brought this up, I thought the BRD adapter would work with W58.........just seems weird that he would make the adapter for a w50 when w58 is far more common and a better transmission.

If you can do an adapter plate for around 100 I'll take one too. Turbo 3tc's and t50's don't work well together........:nopity:

Birch
02-28-2009, 08:35 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the starters and clutch forks on opposite sides on the W50 and T50? How do you deal with that?

celica-fiend
02-28-2009, 08:50 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the starters and clutch forks on opposite sides on the W50 and T50? How do you deal with that?

W55/58 yes, starters on the passenger side.. from a hazy memory, clutch fork is on the pass side too? .. but it's been a few years since Ive had to do a clutch slave .. so can't recall exactly.

fwiw, Id be interested in one of these plates as well.. dont have $6-700 for a niteparts housing atm..

Brett

rob rayne
02-28-2009, 08:53 PM
they are on different sides . but sr5 and w58 are on the same side. the w50 tranny is so old i dont know why that would be the only tranny they would make a plate for. that cast iron bad boy is built proof, but trying find one... o wait i got one :S

Birch
02-28-2009, 09:36 PM
I have one too, and I was contemplating making a Lakewood style steel bellhousing for it but an adapter plate would be a lot easier. It would also allow me to use the stock Celica driveshaft. So how do you adapt it for the starter to swap sides? Sorry to jack your thread...

rob rayne
02-28-2009, 10:04 PM
i dont think theres any thread jacking going on here. theres more tech in this thread than 90% of threads made in the last 6 months.

Rob.K
02-28-2009, 10:46 PM
I have one too, and I was contemplating making a Lakewood style steel bellhousing for it but an adapter plate would be a lot easier. It would also allow me to use the stock Celica driveshaft. So how do you adapt it for the starter to swap sides? Sorry to jack your thread...

You just put the starter on the other side and extend the plug-in wire, I don't understand what you find difficult.........?

Don't worry there's no thread jack, this is on topic, lots of people will find this info valuable. Lots of higher hp rolla's being built now.

Or we could just order those brd adapter plates and drill a couple new holes to match it with a w58...............

BenR
02-28-2009, 11:32 PM
W55/58 yes, starters on the passenger side.. from a hazy memory, clutch fork is on the pass side too? .. but it's been a few years since Ive had to do a clutch slave .. so can't recall exactly.


fork is on drivers (left) side

Birch
02-28-2009, 11:56 PM
You just put the starter on the other side and extend the plug-in wire, I don't understand what you find difficult.........?

Don't worry there's no thread jack, this is on topic, lots of people will find this info valuable. Lots of higher hp rolla's being built now.

Or we could just order those brd adapter plates and drill a couple new holes to match it with a w58...............

It's not the starter that I have trouble with, its the slave. Starter bolts to the bellhousing, no problem. Slave bolts to the block, problem.

rob rayne
03-01-2009, 12:24 AM
now this is a thread jack

400 bitches

max attack
03-01-2009, 07:25 PM
The reason to use the adapter plate is because everything involved with the t-50 bell is simply reused,no relocating of starters or worring about fork and slave mounting etc.In other words forget about where they would be on the w trans.

TTC
03-01-2009, 08:25 PM
Yea but Tom, by adding the adapter plate your pulling the input shaft on the tranny farther away from the block. Will the shaft even touch the block? What about spaces created at the pressure plate and the forks n ****? Ive never handled an adaptor plate, ive always been confused to how they actually work.

paulcorolla
03-01-2009, 08:27 PM
I have the brd plate, if someone in calgary has a w55/w58 tranny I am more than willing to mess around and see if its the same or close.
I got the plate off Rob Houck cause he doenst need it anymore, I'm guessing the reason BRD makes the plate is because the w50 has steel casing, therefore much stronger to handle the massive power of the Puerto Rican drag maniacs.

Birch
03-01-2009, 09:17 PM
The reason to use the adapter plate is because everything involved with the t-50 bell is simply reused,no relocating of starters or worring about fork and slave mounting etc.In other words forget about where they would be on the w trans.

Ah I see. I was thinking it went between the bell and the block. But between the gearbox and bell is much easier. Thank you.

Rob.K
03-01-2009, 09:25 PM
Yea but Tom, by adding the adapter plate your pulling the input shaft on the tranny farther away from the block. Will the shaft even touch the block? What about spaces created at the pressure plate and the forks n ****? Ive never handled an adaptor plate, ive always been confused to how they actually work.

That's my concern with it, It's been used before with no problems though. But ya it would pull the shaft an inch further back.


Ah I see. I was thinking it went between the bell and the block. But between the gearbox and bell is much easier. Thank you.

hahah no wonder you were so confused, I was beginning to wonder..........

Rob Houck
03-01-2009, 10:19 PM
[QUOTE=Rob.K;250729]That's my concern with it, It's been used before with no problems though. But ya it would pull the shaft an inch further back.
QUOTE]

It pulls it back 1/4inch actually because it's a quarter inch plate that is sandwiched in between the transmission and bellhousing.

Rob.K
03-01-2009, 11:25 PM
[QUOTE=Rob.K;250729]That's my concern with it, It's been used before with no problems though. But ya it would pull the shaft an inch further back.
QUOTE]

It pulls it back 1/4inch actually because it's a quarter inch plate that is sandwiched in between the transmission and bellhousing.
/
Ya i know where it goes, is that something to be worried about though, the fact that the shaft doesn't touch the block?

paulcorolla
03-02-2009, 06:22 AM
Usually the imput shaft goes into the pilot bearing enough that 1/4" will be safe.

max attack
03-02-2009, 11:46 AM
The bellhousing depths are different between the 2,haven't measure exactly how much yet but the t-50 is definately shorter-add a spacer of the correct thickness and voila no worries.
I just came from the machine shop and the guys busy but said to call by the end of the week to see if he's had a chance to measure everything up and pulled the bells of both transmissions.I also just ordered a new pilot to take to him,seems like the spacer made out of new zealand/australia? comes with some sort of adapter pilot so I'll scope that out as well.The shop said no problem to cranking a bunch out btw.

Sorry your thread has been utterly jacked Tom,I'll start a new thread regarding this once I have some further news.

TTC
03-02-2009, 12:07 PM
Don't worry bout the jack, I just want to make sure us fellas get what we need. The pilot bearing ID is the same for both trannys

max attack
03-02-2009, 04:26 PM
The pilots are the same eh,wonder what the other dude is showing a pilot adapter for?.

TTC
03-02-2009, 04:45 PM
perhaps the pilot adaptor fills in the space added by the adaptor?

max attack
03-02-2009, 04:48 PM
perhaps the pilot adaptor fills in the space added by the adaptor?

Perhaps,I'll let you guys know hopefully by weeks end.

gary
03-03-2009, 05:42 PM
Did you guys know that the w gear boxes from 20/22r engines can fit on a 3t block.
the location of the locating dowels and the input shaft are the same. If you take a w box and put it behind a 3t you will notice it will line up. The bolt holes are close but not exact.
a little work with a dremel or die grinder to slot the holes and you are good to go. only 4 bolts can be used compared to the original 5 on a 3t.
the starter is another issue, wrong side. last one i did i just bolted a chunk of aluminum to the proper side and grinded & drilled till the starter would bolt up.
ya it sounds cheap. thats why we drive corollas.
welding in a peice would be better of course.

for 4ag engines the niteparts bell is the way to go. mine fits with no problems.

Gary

max attack
03-03-2009, 08:34 PM
Thats fine and dandy if I had a 3tc or nearly $700 to spend on a bell,the money saved will buy a nice clutch and flywheel combo.:)

whiteshirt
03-04-2009, 08:12 AM
I'm very interested in this, but 700 dollar bellhousing is kinda pricey... but a 100 dollar plate i can do

TTC
03-04-2009, 08:59 AM
The bell is more liek 450, but you need a new clutch, fly and pp

toyotaaddict
03-18-2009, 07:10 AM
I might be interested in a bellhousing. Can you ship to the US? if so how much?

mhiscott
03-18-2009, 07:35 AM
Ive been trying for the past week to get a hold of the niteparts guy. No reply...

Rob.K
03-23-2009, 02:51 PM
Hey Max Attack any further word on those adapters?

Cause if you aren't making them I'm going to.

max attack
03-23-2009, 03:49 PM
Yep they're getting made,1st ones not done yet however.The shop guy is on call for manufacturing plants in the area,some pc of equipment went for a crap and he's been busy trying to get it back on line.Its his bread and butter so I'm down the priority list a bit.
He has the bells apart and measured,just working through some design stuff now.

Once I have something concrete and test fit I'll let you know.

dano
03-23-2009, 05:48 PM
hey max is the adapter he's making a w58 fit a 4ag? or a w58 to fit a
t50 bellhousing? also will we still be able to retain the same clutch and flywheel or will we have to upgrade? keep me posted thanks

Rob.K
03-23-2009, 06:32 PM
hey max is the adapter he's making a w58 fit a 4ag? or a w58 to fit a
t50 bellhousing? also will we still be able to retain the same clutch and flywheel or will we have to upgrade? keep me posted thanks

It's a plate that goes between your 4age bel housing and the w58 transmisison. Yes you will need a new clutch disk with w58 spline. You may need to do custom large flywheel and clutch in order to run it because 200mm clutch disks in w58 spline are rare. BRD racing can probably make you a custom 200mm clutch disk with w58 spline so you can leave your stock flywheel and clutch.

max attack
03-23-2009, 06:49 PM
My plan is to have a custom disc made,I have an e-mail into bully clutches(from ottawa) about a clutch and pressure plate to handle the W trans input shaft,200mm 4ag flywheel and the tq from the boost level I'm running.

Rob.K
03-23-2009, 07:00 PM
My plan is to have a custom disc made,I have an e-mail into bully clutches(from ottawa) about a clutch and pressure plate to handle the W trans input shaft,200mm 4ag flywheel and the tq from the boost level I'm running.

What is that going to run you?

I'm gonna try to run 4agze clutch disk(212mm) and shave it down 6mm on the lathe, it was TTC's idea, so we'll see how that goes.

rob rayne
03-23-2009, 07:17 PM
crazy people from hull are strange. i have a gze fly wheel clutch and pressure plate. i really really really want this plate. i just got a w58 boner

max attack
03-23-2009, 07:54 PM
What is that going to run you?

I'm gonna try to run 4agze clutch disk(212mm) and shave it down 6mm on the lathe, it was TTC's idea, so we'll see how that goes.

Don't know yet,I do have a gze flywheel here but since its heavier and I need a clutch/pp anyways....

If its too much $$ I might end up doing the same,shave the gze to fit.

mhiscott
03-23-2009, 08:48 PM
My niteparts housing is en route :)

max attack
03-24-2009, 02:51 PM
What is that going to run you?

I'm gonna try to run 4agze clutch disk(212mm) and shave it down 6mm on the lathe, it was TTC's idea, so we'll see how that goes.


Rob I was just rereading your post and you mean your going to turn down the disc right?I was thinking about turning the flywheel to fit but there isn't much left to take off it,not sure how little clearance there is inside the t-50 bell.

Rob.K
03-24-2009, 03:56 PM
Rob I was just rereading your post and you mean your going to turn down the disc right?I was thinking about turning the flywheel to fit but there isn't much left to take off it,not sure how little clearance there is inside the t-50 bell.

Ya i was going to trim the disk itself to fit the 200mm flywheel and pressure plate i have. 3tc flywheel weighs a tun and the pressure plate is stage two, and i recently resurfaced the fly. So i don't want to have to buy all new stuff.

max attack
03-25-2009, 03:47 PM
Just ordered my clutch and pressure plate,stage 4 from Bully clutch in Ottawa capable of supporting 250whp.About $600,not cheap but....

TTC
03-25-2009, 06:36 PM
Tom only 250whp??? WTF for a stage 4?

Rob.K
03-25-2009, 07:16 PM
Tom only 250whp??? WTF for a stage 4?

ya i was thinking more like 350whp +

max attack
03-25-2009, 08:05 PM
Well they tried talking me into going for the 212 mm flywheel for higher capacity but I'm not planning on making much more power than I have currently-I'll just break the next part down the line and I'm not interested in a supra rear and the costs/added weight that goes with that.
I also wanted a sprung hub and remain driveable,I've driven lightswitch clutch equiped cars before and don't want one of my own.

When I decide to to make more power the 4ag gets the boot along with what little remains of the corolla chassis and I start fresh with a complete tube frame,set-back engine well over 300hp and an a-arm suspension set-up all around.Thats why I'm fine with a 250whp clutch(how much can I really use with 1800lbs and live axle anyways?).

They have a 1-800 number(don't bother with e-mailing them,they don't seem to be good at replying) so you can call and see what they can do for you,they do make a stage 5....

TTC
03-26-2009, 07:18 AM
Yeas bullys like 20min from here. I'm probably going to go with Spence Weir for my ****.

max attack
03-26-2009, 03:41 PM
I like not buying in the US with the exchange rate and shipping and supporting our economy seems like a good idea right now.

widebodystarlet
03-28-2009, 01:44 PM
Did you guys know that the w gear boxes from 20/22r engines can fit on a 3t block.
the location of the locating dowels and the input shaft are the same. If you take a w box and put it behind a 3t you will notice it will line up. The bolt holes are close but not exact.
a little work with a dremel or die grinder to slot the holes and you are good to go. only 4 bolts can be used compared to the original 5 on a 3t.
the starter is another issue, wrong side. last one i did i just bolted a chunk of aluminum to the proper side and grinded & drilled till the starter would bolt up.
ya it sounds cheap. thats why we drive corollas.
welding in a peice would be better of course.

for 4ag engines the niteparts bell is the way to go. mine fits with no problems.

Gary


Gary, you have a niteparts bellhousing? what did you do for the clutch fork setup? I tried the supra fork but it seems to make the release bearing come out way too much for the clutch to ever engage properly. I've got the gze clutch and flywheel but the gze release bearing doesnt fit on the shaft so i can't use the corolla clutch fork. I'm hoping i dont have to shave the mount down where the clutch pivot goes to get that extra room but thats the only solution i see. Any other niteparts guys, what clutch fork did you use?

TTC
03-28-2009, 02:21 PM
Umn im pretty sure i used the GTS clutchfork but im not 100% sure itwas years ago.

widebodystarlet
03-28-2009, 02:31 PM
Thanks ttc, i'll be picking one up tomorrow to give it a shot, hopefully this works so i can get that damn motor in the car.

TTC
03-28-2009, 03:54 PM
I used:

gze fly gze clutch
t50 clutch slave
t50 throwout bearing
and probably t50 clutch fork

widebodystarlet
03-28-2009, 04:01 PM
t50 throwout bearing on the t50 carrier? i didnt realize they were the same size ID as the supra carrier. See i didnt have a t50 with which to frankenstein my transmission.

TTC
03-28-2009, 06:31 PM
Yup. I remember cause I had to dig the damned thing up ina frozen garage

gary
03-28-2009, 07:03 PM
Gary, you have a niteparts bellhousing? what did you do for the clutch fork setup? I tried the supra fork but it seems to make the release bearing come out way too much for the clutch to ever engage properly. I've got the gze clutch and flywheel but the gze release bearing doesnt fit on the shaft so i can't use the corolla clutch fork. I'm hoping i dont have to shave the mount down where the clutch pivot goes to get that extra room but thats the only solution i see. Any other niteparts guys, what clutch fork did you use?

The fork i used came with the w58 box, it came from a 82 celica used the release brg also from the celica. maybe the supra is different? at first i thought the same thing with the fork pivot point, so i shaved a bit off and threaded it back in. was better ,but i went too far. I had to stick a washer back under the pivot to correct my mistake. i know i said it was no problem to fit the bell but little problems like like that in my opinion are normal when you fit aftermarket parts.
I still used a 200 mm disc. mine is a frankenstein peice. I noticed the actual hub center of the celica disc and the hub center of the corolla were the same, just the splines were different. I drilled out the rivets and dissasembled some dead clutches as a test, measured and comfirmed they could be swapped. so I drilled out rivets on a new corolla disc, swapped
the celica hub and all the damper springs . found some high quailty small bolts and nuts and bolted the disc back together. i was doing this as a test with plans to get a clutch rebuild shop to put proper rivets in. never did that, that disc has been in the car for two years now.

hope this helps .
Gary

max attack
04-03-2009, 06:42 PM
Update,template is nearly finished and should be ready for fitment testing next week.

I start a new thread once finished and ready for final update.

paulcorolla
04-03-2009, 06:45 PM
Interest growing!

max attack
04-20-2009, 05:38 PM
Ok its been a long time coming but the sucker should be finished tomorrow or wednesday,I'll post a picture and should have a price per unit then as well.

dano
04-20-2009, 06:51 PM
Sweet!

Rob.K
04-20-2009, 06:53 PM
Ok its been a long time coming but the sucker should be finished tomorrow or wednesday,I'll post a picture and should have a price per unit then as well.

Sounds good.

max attack
04-22-2009, 12:01 PM
Please so for sale thread about the adapters.

celica-fiend
04-22-2009, 01:28 PM
I think he means..

Please SEE for sale thread for adapters:

http://www.dorikaze.net/showthread.php?t=25326




locked, to prevent confusion etc..

Brett