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Thread: From Blue to Red!

  1. #1
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    From Blue to Red!

    Alright, as of April 16, I will have 10 days to try and pull two 4AGEs and put one into my AE86. This thread is in place for two reasons, so I can make my first build thread ever, and also so anyone can tell me what I am doing wrong as I am totally new to the 4AGE aside from some light work to my AE92.

    Current progress: the AE86 has a blown blue top, it is almost all the way out of the car, even more so then the pics here, I have put 2 days work in, and have already changed my mind how I am doing it, the tranny is coming out too, its how I have pulled other engines, so I will stick with it. The AE92 has been in an accident, so I will be pulling my small port red top out, crying, and then putting it in the AE86. The red top is totally stock aside from the intake, which I pulled off a Celica at a scrap yard for $5, and its a nice K&N and all, easily cleaned with my father's cleaning kit! lol

    So aside from parting out my AE92 and having easter dinner, I have until April 26th to get this done... Or at least try to...

    I also have a conversion plate so I can use the big port intake, so that part is done.
    My red top is old and beat up, a little leaky, but I am going to drop it in without doing too much to it, and when I get a real job, I will totally rebuild it, but I want to get it in and running and wired properly first.

    So, the plan...
    I am going to pull both engines
    I want to use the red top ECU and injectors, so I think I have to change the connection to the injectors.
    I need to redo my cam cover seals, I may check out my shim clearance, but nothing else.
    I am going to clean everything up, degrease it, and paint a few things so it looks pretty.
    I have a TRD oil cap, yes, I am that cool!!!
    And thats the basic plan... But I know it will be harder...

    Problems:
    I hear that I need to rewire/bypass a regulator for the injectors, not too sure where it is or how to do it.
    I hear that there is coolant plumbing that needs to be changed if I want to go all red top.
    There is a knock sensor that I need to deal with to work the red top ECU properly, I have no clue what that involves wiring wise.
    I would rather run the electric fan, not really sure what that entails yet... All the other cars I have worked on and rebuilt are from 1968 or older...
    I also need a few gaskets that I know of, but thats just minor.

    I will probably see these problems in a new light when I get the engines out, but at the same time, if anyone has any information that they can give me in the next few days, I would like to hear it.

    I am excited to try this, but a little nervous at the same time. If anyone knows of problems that I may run into, or anything I may need, let me know! Any and all help is welcome!
    Thanks!
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  2. #2
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    redtop ecu will not plug directly in and you'll have to unravel most of your bluetop and redtop wiring and start splicing them together.... really helps if u have a spare front harness from an 86 and both the ae92 and ae86 wiring diagrams ^_^. i got both diagrams and a lot of free time but i still never got around to it... such a pain

    if you want to run the redtop injectors onto the bluetop wiring however all you need to do wire up the injector plugs from the redtop and cut ur resister plug and wire it into itself like so http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=51005

    theres a knock sensor under the intake above the frost plug on the smallport, when u swap it into a 86 and you want to use your 86 gts plumbing it gets in the way... i thought about unbolting it and relocating it but i never did. some guys use 4ac plumbing instead and modify it a bit

    also the thermostat and a bunch of the senders and sensors on the ae92 is relocated to the back if the engine so using the ae92 plumbing wont work so well in an 86 because you'll hit the firewall but ive seen someone do it before...

  3. #3
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    So what did you do with the knock sensor? How did you wire it in? What needs to be changed other then injectors? What needs to be done to get the ECU to fit? Someone told me it was direct... Darn... Anyone have 4ac plumbing? lol

  4. #4
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    Im no sure what condition your blue top head is in but, when my brother and I threw a red top in an sr5 to gts swap we did, we just changed the head and threw in a new head gasket.

  5. #5
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    i threw the knock sensor in the garbage cuz i broke it.. ha..
    but if u look in ur ae92 with the intake off preferably, the knock sensor is already plugged in... you dont do anything
    to get the ecu to fit you rewire your whole engine bay pretty much. take the ae92 smallport wiring... find out what all the wires do... take the bluetop ae86 wiring... find out what the wires do then put them together. its more then i can explain seeing how i barely understand it myself. its not direct fit sorry

  6. #6
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    If the red tops leaking from the rear main seal or front crank seal best to do it while the engines out.

    We did this with my buddies engine, cost him like $40 for the seals but well worth it i think.

    Just throwing it out there
    Last edited by Jehuty77; 04-11-2011 at 06:28 PM.

  7. #7
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    Well if its something like that, I will possibly do it, but I don't want to take the head off and then need to get a new head gasket, I hear that the only good ones are the ones that cost $150+. As for the wires, do I need to take the blue top harness out, or can I leave it in find out what runs where with diagrams and switch the ends I need? I just like the way the blue top harness is threaded into the car and don't want to try and get it in the same place. And I was wondering if I could used the AE86 plumbing and move the sensor. I guess I will find out exactly what is involved there when I get them out. Duy-, is yours running? How is it?
    Thanks guys!

  8. #8
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    By the way, the blue top is messed! Like its really bad! I want the full red top for the extra power anyways.

  9. #9
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    and before i forget, the fwd 4ages DO NOT have pilot bearings in them... put one in if u decide to throw the redtop in

    mine runs fine, still havent got around to wiring it up but its just a smallport with injectors running on bluetop wiring and ae86 plumbing without a knock sensor... that was pretty much direct drop in

  10. #10
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    do the work of fitting the small port harness and use the ecu. You won't regret it.

  11. #11
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    Ah, so you are still using the AE86 ECU? I am going to try it, wiring is the part I thought was going to be the hardest, so I guess we will see how it goes... I will get a better idea of what needs to be done in a week when I get them both out and see what everything looks like. I have been looking for a US 1990 Corolla GTS pinout, but I can not find one... Club 4AG has ones for 89, and then Japanese 1990, no US, not sure how different it would be... And I can find 1000 write ups on a full 20v swap, but nothing on a red top swap where they keep the head, everyone seems to just get a blue top head, or they keep the AE86 ECU.

  12. #12
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    I plan on keeping the red top ECU, I just hope I can do it all in 10 days! lol

  13. #13
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    yeah thats why i havent, if ur restricted on time u can just throw it in with bluetop ecu... i bought a spare bluetop harness so i can wire it up properly at my own pace but then again if ur a procrastinator like me then just get er done all at once

  14. #14
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    Haha! I totally am a procrastinator... So I better do it all at once. This rebuild is purely wiring and getting things going properly, after its all good, I will rebuild it again for power, may as well get the wires done now! May I ask where you found the wiring diagrams? Is the JDM the same as the USDM when it comes to wires and the pinout? Does anyone know of someone that has completed this swap?

  15. #15
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    1) Use the redtop harness (extended where required) and ecu.
    2) Use the bluetop plumbing, chopping the hard line that interferes with the knock sensor and run a piece of heater hose around the sensor.
    3) Don't listen to everything Duy tells you.

  16. #16
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    Hmm... Those do sound like much easier fixes and would save me from finding the 4AC parts. I will be starting in a week and I will try and post how it goes! If anyone else has any info or ideas, please share!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastaracer View Post
    1) Use the redtop harness (extended where required) and ecu.
    2) Use the bluetop plumbing, chopping the hard line that interferes with the knock sensor and run a piece of heater hose around the sensor.
    Agreed.

    Also... Do the electric fan setup. You won't regret it. BECAUSE if you don't do it and you slap the clutch fan onto the fwd AE92 waterpump, you will have issues down the road. The FWD water pumps don't like having a clutch fan mounted to them.

    Good luck doing this in 10 days... not impossible... could be tricky without some helping hands though.
    - Project Hachi-Horror. The eternal money pit.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BARKER View Post
    The FWD water pumps don't like having a clutch fan mounted to them.
    I found this out the hard way when I was a newb. The fan pulled the mounting flange clean off the end of the water pump shaft and took out the rad. You can use the thermostat housing from your AE92 on your AE86 plumbing because it has the temperature switch for the electric fan.

  19. #19
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    Yes, I would like to keep the electric fan, but I had other reasons. I didn't know it was such a problem to use the one form the AE86, but glad I know that now!

  20. #20
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    want pix!
    lolwut

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