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Thread: "Project Turquoise" aka Tommy's little peanut...

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    "Project Turquoise" aka Tommy's little peanut...

    Like some of you might already know, I exchanged my 1977 orange TE31 for a new (older) 1974 KE20





    Body wise, it's pretty neat, only holes are in the rockers...




    And I need to correct a past repair on the front driver fender for it to fit perfectly


    So overall, it's pretty decent. There is a couple of bubble starting to appear here and there, but nothing rotten. The goal was to not have a lot of body work to do in order to not have to spray the whole car. Coupled with the fact that the blue paint is a lot more "fade resistant" than the orange that was on the TE, I should be able to get away with local repair (those that have already been done really blend well with the original paint so it shouldn't be different with my futur repair.


    Apart from that, the engine bay is somewhat clean (and comes with a nice strut tower brace)...




    ...and you guys better get use to seeing the little teeny tiny 3K-C that's between the strut towers because I have no intensions of swapping it out


    It has a front aftermarket sway bar....



    ...and a rear



    Inside is pretty decent...




    And I even carried my old steering wheel . I have a 3 mecanical gauge pod that fits like a glove in the original ashtray hole, so no puzzle with that!


    What's worst with the car is the floor




    I really elieve that it wasn,t worst that that before the repair... luckily, there is no rot or hole like in the TE, but htere is a lot of surface rust inside and out, so I'll need to take care of that fast before it really gets ugly. Both frame rail by the tranny are shot like on the TE... like they say : been there, done that... even got the t-shirt!

    And there is a little rust under the driver fender, on the support and the lower rad support is shot, but one again, nothing visible so it's a good thing for the paint.


    The car currently has a 4 speed K40 tranny, but it came with a 5 speed K50... (nice difference next to the W40... and I'm not even talking about weight )




    The problem is : the dude who sold me the car was probably unaware that cast alloy piece are not strong and if the holes are not aligned, it's not a good thing to torque the bolt to try to force it...



    But it was in need of a rebuild, some of the bearing inside are very noisy and the yoke bushing is not in good shape... so it'll probably turn out as my winter project!


    So the plan is to start with what I already have : the suspension...

    The car as a shot front hub. The last owner probably didn't take car of a shot bearing and now the race is shot and the bearing are loose inside. Anyway, those KE came with 8" solid brake disk and 4x110 bolt pattern.. so the plan is the same as with the TE : complet AE86 front suspension swap, along with the 9"1/4 vented disk. The diff is probably a 6" U diff (although it could be a 5.7" B diff since I don't have the vin plate in the engine bay and their is no real way to identify them visually without taking them apart...). All that I know is that it has a 4.222:1 ratio and 4x110 bolt pattern... and that my TRD LSD doesn't fit in. So the plan is to find a narrow 6.38" S diff and rebuild it with all the bearing that are already chilling in a box here... and slap my LSD at the same time.


    That's it for all... futur plan are not decided yet. I have an aftermarket cam for the 3K and I have all the intensions of using it but hte rest is unsure... although an old plan could rise again form teh depth : the stupid silvertop intake that has been gattering dust in the basement for close to 10 years... But before that, I'll need to take care of the suspension, rust and tranny... the rest will come later...
    Last edited by tommy; 07-02-2013 at 06:44 PM.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Pretty damn good shape overall and especially for where its located. ADDCO swaybars are pretty nice too.


    Or you could have said "sorry, my kidnap victims keep kicking my elbow, it made me drop my crack pipe and swerve"

    -bangnscrape

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    Thx sunray... and also thanks for the reminder... I forgot who made those swaybars
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Nice trade!
    "mmmango!"

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    Looks good. That 3k is super tiny!
    Haha I'm getting used to the way the 3sg looks in my mango, forgot how small the old engines are.
    Big cam, itb, efi!?!?!?

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    150e? ?
    Lol


    Or you could have said "sorry, my kidnap victims keep kicking my elbow, it made me drop my crack pipe and swerve"

    -bangnscrape

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulcorolla View Post
    Looks good. That 3k is super tiny!
    Haha I'm getting used to the way the 3sg looks in my mango, forgot how small the old engines are.
    Big cam, itb, efi!?!?!?
    Hey, I'm used at seeing a 2T-B in there and I'm supprised every time I pop the hood... good thing is that the engine and tranny must weight something close to 200lbs. But yeah, that's exactly the plan

    Quote Originally Posted by sunray View Post
    150e? ?
    Lol
    Damn, that would be my dream... but I think they made under 20 of them and half are resting in museum... but if you have one laying around, I might be intereseted lol


    On a other note, I have that strange cam here... here goes the story!

    When I brought the car home after the trade, the last owner threw a bunch of junk and part along with it, and told me he had some kind of cam designed for an Opel that supposedly fitted the 3K... I was doubtful but hey free stuff is free

    So I investigated that.... nowhere have I read about the use of anything other that K cam in a K engine. So I ended up opening the packaging and got the cam out. Surely it looks like a K cam, cam lobes fit the valve arrangement, their is a center gear desinged to turn the distributor and even the cam for the fuel pump is there. I have no other 3K cam laying around, but I compared it visually to some example I found on the interwebz and I swear, it looks really like a 3K cam (I'll take picture later). What I don't have is a shop manual (the one I bought hasn't showed up yet) so I have no standard journal dia or cam lobe measure to compared it to. I also have no spacing between the cam lobs or bearing journals to compare it to either but it really looks like a 3K cam.

    ...and here is where it gets weird... There is a marking on one end that reads : "E-11 ENEM". So I googled that thing and sure enough, I came on a wed page in norwegian or something I have no idea how to read and here it is, cam grind for Opel CIH engine... but "CIH" stands for "Cam in Head", so I googled a couple image of those cams (stock or what ever) and like I thought, there is no provision for a gear in the center since the dist is placed near the belt cover, and there is no cam for the fuel pump since the engine must use an electric one.

    The company (ENEM) makes a ton of cams, but the E11 code only show up in the Opel CIH cam listing...

    So I'm pretty sure that's not an Opel cam and I'm pretty convinced it is a 3K cam... ENEM doesn't make anything else that 3S-GTE cam for toyota... so nothing close. So I might have a 3K regrind following the specs of that E11 ENEM opel cam. I'll need to crunch some numbers to find out first, but that would be my best educated guess...

    Oh boy, that was long... lol Anyways, the specs for the E11 cam are :

    Duration seat to seat : 308?
    lobe separation : 108?
    lift : 11.8mm (although I didn't compare the Opel CIH rockers ratio to the 3K)

    That would make it offcicially a "lumpy cam" lol

    Bumping the compression by going 0.060" over with stock flat pistons and by shaving head/block/both (what ever is the most cost effective) and throwing some ITB running off a MS2 I have in pieces in the basement could make that cam pretty neat... I'll just have to go though head work first like I did on the 2T head... here I go again lol

    P.S. anyone has a spare skinny 71-73 KE20/TE21 rear bumper what ever the condition... I'm in the market for one
    Last edited by tommy; 08-03-2012 at 01:47 PM.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Like I thought, everything points toward a 3/4K cam...

    Here is the mystery cam in question.


    And the markings


    And here is how an Opel CIH cam looks like (the cam that those marking are supposed to go with)



    Apart from being an other non-crossflow engine with the same valve arrangement, the rest is just wrong... journal placement and all... so it's not an Opel cam like I was told...

    And here is some exemples of 3/4K cam



    Sure looks exactly like that... here is that top picture just to be able to compare them...



    So I'll have to setup to measure lift and duration on that cam in order to find out what those numbers are for real... but if someone took the time to mark them with some kind of code that's linked to an aftermaket Opel cam grind, I guess it must have something in common with it...
    Last edited by tommy; 07-02-2013 at 06:45 PM.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunray View Post
    150e? ?
    Lol
    All hopes are not lost...

    http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/51097-4k-twin-cam/

    That would probably be easier than to locate one of the 20 150e ever made... lol Still crazy fab
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Haha.. I mean it's cool, I guess, but why? all that time, effort, and money, just to make a 4ag with a crappier bottom end.

    1970 KE17 Project
    1969 KE10 Slider

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    Uniqueness I guess... but crappier? Depends how you look at it... with a stroke of 73mm using the 4A rods, you end up with a rod/stroke ratio of 1.67 instead of the 1.58 in the stock 4A for even more rev happiness... will it be more powerfull with 100cc less displacement? I doubt it. But it will probably be a little less heavy to compensate... I'd rock one for sure
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Well, I've been on vacation with the family so nothing really happened here.

    I sourced AE86 hub and PS knuckles to go with the rest of AE86 front suspension. I also sourced a rear S 6.38" diff with 4.1:1 ratio so I can use my LSD and dump all new bearings and brake on since I already bought them. I just need to go get that stuff.

    So nothing has been done on the suspension. But last evening I was alone so I ended up tearing that ST intake manifold apart in order to clean those throttle bodies that have been gattering dust here for too long... problem is they gathered humidity to, so they need quite a cleaning.

    I have a little questions on the TBs themself :

    There are some vaccum port on the underside that end up right under the throttle plate in a very tiny port. Those ports are normally connected to a common vaccum rail and seem to be part of the EVAP system (although I have never worked with 20V so it's more of an educated guess...)




    But 2 out of the 4 throttle bodies also have a vaccum port on top that emerge behind the plate where the TB meet the manifold. Those holes are also a lot bigger and work on the throttle opener and FPR but 2 of the TBs have undrilled holes.

    The question is concerning how to get a MAP reading. Is it possible to use the lower tiny port (although I don't think it is) or do I need to drill the 2 extra upper port and use all of them on a common rail to plug the MAP sensor on...

    - On a BT, how is the MAP connected on the TB?

    - For those that run BT ECU on ST, what do you do to plug the MAP? (and don't forget that I'm not running the stock manifold with injector/fuel rail and the other vaccum port)
    Last edited by tommy; 07-02-2013 at 06:48 PM.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Well, been very busy but got a hold of my AE86 PS knuckle and hub, clean the heack out of them, now they are ready for paint. I need to figure out if I can press AE86 ball joint in my KE20 LCA, as soon as I have a definitive answer on that, I'll either by some new AE balljoint or get the T3 adpater bushing for my stock balljoint. That the only missing piece of the puzzle for the suspension.

    Apart from that, I was trying to figure out how the heck I was going to mount some injectors on that 3K. Siamese intake port spacing makes for a real headache in trying to find a fuel rail that will fit...



    ...and then having to fab all the lower manifold with bungs and all, not what I call simple... so I wet with the idea of going with standoff injectors but one again, mounting hte fuel rail and all was going to be a real nightmare... and then while looking at a picture of the 150e engine I got an idea



    Just mounting the injectors right in the velo stack with no fuel rail in the way, makes for a really clean look... then I remembered my old days of dealing with S12...

    SOHC CA engine like the CA20E and CA18ET use really weird injectors (the same as on the EFI datsun L28 engines) they are not o-ring type top feed, but have a barbed tube that is used to plug a hose to link the injector to the fuel rail...



    So I thought : "Hey that could be much easier to fit on there"... plus if those injectors can fuel a 1.8L turbo engine, I guess fueling my 1166cc N/A shouldn't be much of a problem...

    Just make a nice bracket to hold the injector in the velostack and mount the SOHC CA fuel rail some other place and just link the 2 together with EFI hose...

    So I mocked it up... OK, it's only a cut up coat hanger, not the real bracket... it's a sidefeed injector from a silvertop 4A-GE and I have no velo stack... yet. But lets just pretend those were all the right things... and here is how it should look...



    [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img832/7929/cle1.jpg [/img]

    And here is where I could mount the stock SOHC CA fuel rail and not have to modify it, just get some custom brackets on it to mount it up...



    Ok, I guess it's on the "redneck" side of things... but that could end up working very well!
    Last edited by tommy; 07-02-2013 at 06:50 PM.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Well had some time today to play on it a little... well really, I only painted my knuckles and hubs, but in between the coat, I had time to pull out the front left hub (the one that was slack) for two reasons :

    1 - Inspect why the heck it was loose

    2 - To gain better acces to the balljoint and measure it to compare to an AE86 balljoint in order to find out what I'm going to do with this.

    Well guys, when a bearing gets noisy, donc do like the PO, change it!

    Here is what must have happened... bearing blew, nobody cared and drove on and it welded the inside to the outer race. Tthere is a brand new bearing in so I have no idea, but it's pretty easy to figure out by looking at this...



    The inside of the hub is melted and now the outer race is loose and you can push the outer race a good 1/4" inward since the lip that holds it in place has melted and was pushed inwards. And unlike what the PO told me, there is nothing to rebuild here, unless one wants to weld 2 inchs of metal in and remachine the whole hub... that, and the fact that the spindle took a beating too...



    This is where the seal sits, it's all f@cked up and the metal has turned bleu cause of the heat. The section of spindle that is between both bearing has heated too and the metal also changed color.

    Good thing I did plan on reusing the whole stock suspension...

    Apart from that, the definitive anwser on the balljoint is that you cannot use a AE86 balljoint in a KE20 LCA. The part that is pressed in in 36mm dia on my KE and I measured 41mm on a spare AE balljoint... and even if I wanted to machine my LCA 5mm bigger, the LCA itself isn't wide enough so it's a no go except if I wanted to do major fab work, which is not worth it IMO for what it is.

    So I'll have to order some T3 bushing adapeter... if I had a mill here I'd make some, but I don't... so it'll be easier to fly 60$ via paypal. Unless someone here has some 3/4" stailess rod and wants to machine me a set for less...

    So that's all for now, I hope to have more time to play on the KE in the following week.
    Last edited by tommy; 07-02-2013 at 06:46 PM.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    ball joint are not the same on my te27 as they are on my ae86. joint is smaller on the te27. lower arms are longer on the te27 & shorter on the ae86. I suspect your lower arms and ball joints will be the same.
    note; on my te27 the ae86 struts bolt straight on the te27 knuckle no problem. just swap over the te27 strut top to the ae86 strut.
    hope this helps.
    Gary

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    Thanks Gary, I know all about that. We indeed have the same balljoint (12mm bolt and tapper) and 335mm or so LCA (about 30mm longer than AE86 ones)... But TE2X have a 85mm knuckle to strut bolt spacing, the same as all other TE and AE86 as my KE has 80mm lower bolt spacing so AE86 suspension doesn't bolt on (the top plate is the same as yours so I also need to swap it but it will bolt on no problem).

    If I could get a hold of TE2X knuckle, it would be bolt on, but all I could find were AE86 PS knuckle which are closest in length as the E2X (115mm from balljoint to tie rod, stock is 110mm) but use the later 14mm bolt and tapper balljoint. T3 sell adapter to fit over the E2X smaller balljoint and fill the gap in a knuckle that bolts on the bigger balljoint used on all other Corolla after 1974.

    But if someone has TE2X knuckles and could get them to me for less than 60$ shipped, I guess I could redo the painting job on those knuckles and sell my newly painted AE86 PS one to someone else...
    Last edited by tommy; 08-26-2012 at 06:48 PM.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    at this point i would just use the ae86 lower arms and knuckles. get some ae86 lower arms and lengthen them to same as your ke or this also gives you an opportunity to add extra length for more camber. i use a piece of pipe that fits in the channel of the arm to strengthen. I know you can, i have seen your wheel welding projects.

    Gary

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    If you find 1 1/4 square tube, it fits like a glove into the channel.

    I think you are going to have terrible economy and low end driveability with the injectors that far away and on the other side of the throttle plates. What works for a 10k rpm 150e might not be so great on a mild 3k. There have been some oem setups with staged injectors, with one set close to the head and one far away. I think thats how F1 did it too.

    1970 KE17 Project
    1969 KE10 Slider

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    Quote Originally Posted by gary View Post
    at this point i would just use the ae86 lower arms and knuckles. get some ae86 lower arms and lengthen them to same as your ke or this also gives you an opportunity to add extra length for more camber. i use a piece of pipe that fits in the channel of the arm to strengthen. I know you can, i have seen your wheel welding projects.

    Gary
    Quote Originally Posted by Cbergerud View Post
    If you find 1 1/4 square tube, it fits like a glove into the channel.
    Yeah, I think that's the best idea... worst part is that my AE knuckles were giving to me by a friends with the LCA and balljoint still attached... I pulled them out and gave the LCA back... I guess I'll just call my friend back to know if he has any use for his LCA lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Cbergerud View Post
    I think you are going to have terrible economy and low end driveability with the injectors that far away and on the other side of the throttle plates. What works for a 10k rpm 150e might not be so great on a mild 3k. There have been some oem setups with staged injectors, with one set close to the head and one far away. I think thats how F1 did it too.
    Yeah, I get what your saying... on the other hand, look at any carb... the jet are almost as far away as my stand off injectors and always on the other side of the throttle plates... with an EFI setup where idle is adjusted via a TB bypass valve, you could end up with fueling problem at idle with injectors on the outside of the runner firing at a closed throttle plate and only have air with no fuel getting on the other side of the throttles via the bypass valve but I don't plan to run any IAC or any sort of bypass to tune the idle... I'll just adjust every single TB with the stop screw, just like you'd synchronize any multiple carb to adjust idle speed... that way the plates will never be completely closed and fuel *should* get down the runner just as it does with twin DCOE... it will come down to tuning I guess...

    Also, I plan to run the injectors IN the velo stack... it will block some of the airflow but should help make some kind of ventury around the injectors by reducing port area (act as some kind of choke). I know it may not be the best for flow, but the 42mm TB on my sub 300cc cylinders are way too big anyway so I don't think it will make that much of a difference, but it should help at low engine speed by reducing backflow.

    I too have almost always seen stand off injectors used in staged setup, with the outside one oppening at mid/high rpm... but the reason I chose to go with only a set of standoff was not to make a staged setup, it was because it's way easier to fit on that thing than having to make a fuel rail from scratch and having to weld a bunch of bung and things on the lower manifold to get the injectors and fuel rail to bolt on... if I ever choose to mod the lower manifold that way, I'll just forget about the standoff and use only a set of injectors like every OEM setup does.

    In the end, we'll never really know if it works good or not until I fire it up for the first time... if it runs like crap, I can always change the setup later down the road... so I'll just give it a go!

    *edit* or I guess the only option I have is to make a new thread "How to get 10k rpm from my 3K".... lmao
    Last edited by tommy; 08-27-2012 at 02:07 PM.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

  20. #20
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    Well, I investigated this a little further and decided to try and see how it would look if I mounted the injector deeper in the TB...



    Alright, it looks crappy because I made the bracket out of cheap cardboard in about 2min, but it's just to get the idea : single plane bracket machined out of 1/8" alloy plate and sandwish between the TB and the velo stack.



    I crunched some numbers and with the 45.5mm bore at the opening, the injector + bracket bring the port area equal to having a 36mm choke in a carb...
    Last edited by tommy; 07-02-2013 at 06:47 PM.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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