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Thread: "Project Turquoise" aka Tommy's little peanut...

  1. #161
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    Looking good dude.
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    Cool stuff. Don't want my comment taken the wrong way, I think your combo of extremely technical thinking plus ghetto fab magic is awesome and this thread is awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cbergerud View Post
    Cool stuff. Don't want my comment taken the wrong way, I think your combo of extremely technical thinking plus ghetto fab magic is awesome and this thread is awesome.
    Thx buddy that means a lot to me and don't worry, the more I think about it the wiser that comment gets...
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Well, finished slapping back the T50 together...



    ...right in time to forget it in the far end of the shed as a backup in case the K50 isn't up to the task... sad because it was pretty clean.

    And as soon as that was finished, I charged ahead into the K50 inspection/rebuild... with no FSM...


    Scratched my head a little, but after figuring out everything, I am impressed by this little tranny. I have never worked on a weird tranny like that though. The design is impressive, how everything was created to be as compact as possible. The reverse gear has no selector, actually the reverse gear on the output shaft is cast on the 1st/2nd gear selector so is always turning with the output shaft. The countershaft reverse gear is also always engaged so to engage the reverse gear, the "idler" gear is attached to the shifting rod and moves to mesh between the 2 other gears when reverse is selected... really weird but compact. The 5th gear lives in the extension housing where the reverse gear on a T50 normally is. Thing is that to engage properly with the standard H pattern, it needs a weird linkage to inverse the shifter movement that pulls on the rod but the selector need to move forward to engage 5th gear... and to be sure that there is no slop in there, their is 2 eccentric bolt to adjust everything perfectly... anyway, it's weird and beautifully thought at the same time.

    But the thing that surprised me the most was that I was able to strip the hole tranny, shifting rods and both input and output shaft with only a hands full of tools : 12 and 14mm wrench, a pin punch, a hammer, flat and philips head screwdriver and a pair of c-clip pliers... no gear pullers or press, no SST... you could rebuild the whole tranny in the bed of a pickup truck in the middle of freaking nowhere with the basic tools that are hiding behind the drivers seat... awesome!

    So the verdict : synchros are brand freaking new. Input and output shaft bearings are the same as the ones in the T50 and are new too, no slop and spins like butter. Both input and output seals are also the same as the T50 and I already have a new pair waiting. All the gears are in perfect conditions. The only parts that will need replacing is the front countershaft bearing and the shaft that goes trough the counter shaft. Luckily, that shaft is only 46$ from toyota and the needle bearing can be replaced by a SKF bearing worth 30$. I'll also need to replace a circlip that has seen better days and a couple bolts... all in all I have less than 100$ of parts to bring it back to new condition... not to bad!

    And here is the ****ty part... don't ask me how I did this... the 5th/reverse linkage is held on the case with 2 countersunk philips head screws... piece of crap for everyone who has taken apart an oil pump and the likes, half of the time the stupid bit slips and strips the head... not in my case...

    Got torque?


    The stupid bit shattered in a thousand pieces... and it wasn't a master-crap bit, trust me. So now 3/4 of it is still stuck in the head and sure enough it stripped while shattering so it won't come out.



    Luckily those screws are worth 0.76$ from toyota... I'll have to weld the shattered bit in the hole to be able to pull the last bit of linkage left in the case, than I'll order my parts on monday and get everything cleaned good to be able to slap everything back in the case when parts will arrive.
    Last edited by tommy; 07-13-2013 at 01:58 PM.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    I've been able to remove flatheads like that with a center punch and a hammer. place a dimple halfway from the center to the perimeter on the face of the screw, then angle the punch and begin to apply force circumferentially about the screw in that dimple. usually just a few whacks with the hammer and it starts to spin.

    ...the screw is a writeoff though. fortunately I hear these are 76 cents from toyota.

  6. #166
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    Yeah, it's already "screwed" (lol) anyway the way it is right now. I'll try that out, thx for the tip!
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

  7. #167
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    Alright sparkie, if we ever meet, I owe you a beer or two... took 15 seconds and both are out
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

  8. #168
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    Good tip!

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    Haha! no problem, I learned it from a really old engineer at work and since then it's like franks - i put it (to use) on everything.

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    Well little update, I've been away fishing for the last week so no work has been done on the peanut. And now I'm kinda stucked with the darn tranny again : I've had no chances with the darn K50... just before leaving, I ordered everything missing to put it back together when I get back online at lithiatoyota to find out later that day that the only thing still available for the K50 are the 2 countersunk screws... the countershaft took a beating from the worn front bearing, I could probably sleeve it and I found a generic SKF bearing that should fit in place but no chances on the thrust washer. I've sent request on a dozen other website still listing the stock in there database to be faced with the same answer : "no longer available". I've tried oversea forums with dozen of K50 but no one wants to dive in and remove a couple parts. I won't buy a 300$ K50 in AUS and pay 500$ to get it here, no way and most of them just don't want to ship international anyway...

    So it's getting stupidly complicated... I'm now looking for a short tail T50 extension housing to fit on my 22 spline T50 so I don't have to cut the transtunnel. If I can get one for cheap, I'll just let the nearly mint K50 gather dust and fit the newly assembled T50 behind the destroked 7A and be done with it... might also convert the bellhousing to use the cable clutch so I don 't have to bastardize the firewall and mess with the clutch pedal and bracket which was the main reason to fit the K50 in the first place.

    Soooo if someone has that tailhousing laying somewhere in a pile of junk or on there garage floor, just PM me and we'll work something out.

    Work will restart soon, probably this week end, I'll update as things get done.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

  11. #171
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    Well, I PMed gary at the end of last week and he should be able to provide me with a short tail T40... I'll just have to swap in the shifting rods and get the extension + shifter on the 22 spline T50 I have here... so the engine will not be the only frankeinstein piece on that car

    So the K50 is back again together as was when I took it apart... talk about a waste of time... and the T50 is now disassembled once again... another waste of time. Oh well what can you do...?

    So while I wait to get everything back to finish the darn tranny, I spent a little time doing boring stuff...

    I cut the PCV tube going out of the intake cam cover to reweld it at 90? facing the rear. It may not look like much but the goal was to get as much clearance as possible for the holley so I stuck it as close as possible to the cam cover... let me tell you, welding the backside was far from something enjoyable. It's so close to the cam cover that I even filled a little bit of the cam cover under the fitting so the hose still slips on after a couple layers of paint.

    Now the lettering is painted of both cam covers and the plate to hide the spark plug (whatever that thing is called) is primed. I'll take some picture of the darn 90? fitting when the paint will be done.

    Apart from that, I also lost a little time with the rod bolt... you see, the L16 ARP rod bolt are not 100% bolt-on, here is a side by side comparaison with the stock E16 ones:




    Yep the head is a lot bigger... in fact a couple hundredth too big to fit in place so I had to grind a little material on one side to allow them to slide easily in place



    Now that everything is back together, I'll hone the big ends to there final specs and balance everything

    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

  12. #172
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    I've been playing with honing stones and micrometer all evening yesterday, now my oil clearance are freaking spot on



    Tomorrow I'll bring a scientific scale from the lab so I should be able to balance everything to 0.00 g... I could go to ten thousandth but I think I would probably loose my sanity before the end lol

    I also redid the paint job on the ugly half black half stripped cam covers I had...



    ...after modifying the PCV fitting to make some clearance for the big Holley



    If everything goes well, I should be able to close the longblock by the end of next week... then I'll dig in much needed custom work : cooling and lube systems... stay tuned.

    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I've been playing with honing stones and micrometer all evening yesterday, now my oil clearance are freaking spot on
    Small end?
    Why? Can't you just order sleeves to fit or they all the same no matter what?


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  14. #174
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    The rods were originally bored for 19mm press in pins, when pressing a new brass bushing, you oversize the hole but when you press the bushing in, it shrinks a little so you need to hone it back to 0.0002 or 0.0003" of oil clearance with the pins... done and done!

    *edit*

    Oh I see your question, yes I honed the small end but I also honed the big end It's now oval by 0.001" and the vertical oil clearance is... well nobody cares anyway
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Oh I see your question, yes I honed the small end but I also honed the big end It's now oval by 0.001" and the vertical oil clearance is... well nobody cares anyway
    0.0001 to 0.0003 lol. That's so crazy. I hardly have the patience for 0.00X"
    What's stock spec? Why do you run so tight?

    From what I know, you need to keep the ID of the big end stock size to fit the bearing OD...what's your plan? Won't resizing effect the way the bearing sits or will it just squish in there?
    And of course, why oval?

    Sorry for all the questions, but you're doing things I've never seen before. I love learning new things.
    Where did you learn all of this?


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    For any cylindrical item in an engine, there is only size, taper and out of round. by getting the out of round (oval) to less than 0.001", he is making sure the cylindrical opening is nice and round.

    When resizing a rod, the cap and rod are ground flat. Then bolted back together and put on a rod resizing machine and honed until round again. this should have no effect on bearings as you resize it to the stock bearing od. On the other side of this is the crank, that you usually have to grind to an under size spec, and then run undersized bearings.

    I've done all this stuff when working at that machine shop way back in the day.

    I learned a bunch there and also going to school for Journeyman ticket for the rest.
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  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by JungleMatic View Post
    0.0001 to 0.0003 lol. That's so crazy. I hardly have the patience for 0.00X"
    What's stock spec? Why do you run so tight?
    That's stock specs, maximum allowable is 0.002" according to the FSM. It is tight but it hardly moves (occiliate under 15? in my application so "journal" speed is very low and no oil pass pushes pressurize oil up there so too much oil clearance means higher oil volume demand and you just don't have or need that kind of lubrication up there.

    Quote Originally Posted by JungleMatic View Post
    From what I know, you need to keep the ID of the big end stock size to fit the bearing OD...what's your plan? Won't resizing effect the way the bearing sits or will it just squish in there?
    And of course, why oval?
    See here, that's the standard procedure :

    Quote Originally Posted by Old 'Rollas View Post
    When resizing a rod, the cap and rod are ground flat. Then bolted back together and put on a rod resizing machine and honed until round again. this should have no effect on bearings as you resize it to the stock bearing od. On the other side of this is the crank, that you usually have to grind to an under size spec, and then run undersized bearings.
    That is exactly what the machine shop did before I bought those "rebuild rods". The where perfectly round (to the 0.0001") and where also standard ID. What I do when I build an engine I want to beat on and rev fast is open up the oil clearance a little. You measure your crank, half bearing, then select which ones goes where and they you figure out how much you need to open up to give you the clearance you want. Their is a limit you don't want to cross though, typically you should keep that last step under 0.001" If you end up with clearances or 0.0013 and 0.0014 lime me, you hone the rods that have 0.0013" a little extra 0.0009" and those with 0.0014" an extra 0.0008" to get you well you guessed it. That is totally within safe margin to use standard bearings. The bearing crush that is keeping both halves in their respective spot is a lot greater than 0.0031415..." so oversizing the big end by less than 0.001" is totally acceptable (anyway look at the specifications in the FSM and you probably have a range greater than this).

    In fact you could probably go bigger but that would require you to cut it to size and then hone it to the final specs, honing over 0.001" will typically result in out-of-round or taper surfaces. So keep the final honing to less than 0.001" and you'll be fine.

    Now how and why oval? Well you've probably seen my graph showing that those engines will pull over 3000g. I haven't weighted the rod/piston assembly but it's probably around 1kg... so when spinning the engine really high will result in pushing and pulling on those rods with a force of 3 tons... that is huge! What happen when you pull on the rod with that force? If your rod bolts aren't strong enough you can ask paul what happened to his first 3T in the mango but if the rod bolts are holding, the big end bore is getting stretched in an egg shape. What that does is pull the side (at the parting line between the cap and rod) together. If it pulls enough and the bearing make contact with the journal, it's game over. The bearing are already "lemon" shaped from the factory but adding an extra 0.001" of clearance at the parting line will give an extra margin for error and will let you get away with tighter oil clearance than you could with a round rod. How do you do that? Simple, put the rod in a big clamp or vise on the parting line of the cap and tighten it until the dia at the parting line gets 0.001" smaller. The dia up/down where you measure oil clearance will move 0.001" so you need to take that into account when measuring while you hone them. When honing is done you just release the clamp or vise and voil?, your big end is now perfectly oval on purpose


    Quote Originally Posted by JungleMatic View Post
    Sorry for all the questions, but you're doing things I've never seen before. I love learning new things.
    Where did you learn all of this?
    That's alright! I've been reading on those things for too long and being a scholar like I am, when I read something it sticks (my brain is made of a sponge like material that sucks in info and never let go lol). The oval thing is not a new thing and was already done in racing in the 60s and maybe prior to that. I've read a lot of scientific literature on internal combustion engines and I am pretty good at math and physics so it's not very hard for me to put 1 and 1 together.

    I'm glad if that can be of any help to you guys
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

  18. #178
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    Soooo, I love when crap is getting done!

    Made a little home made jig to be able to balance the rods


    A couple pieces of wood screwed together and a rachet with a 32mm box hung from the celling with a chain


    The rods where horribly balanced from the factory, one of them was over 5% heavier than the rest... ridiculous... and I'm not even getting into the small end/big end stuff. I had to get creative to remove material without weakening them. The rest was close to perfect : piston + pin + snap-ring + gapped ring were all within 0.2g of each other... good job Toyota!

    But the nicest part is the final total weight of the rods + ARP bolt : 482.2g. I couldn't confirmed but I found on the internet that the stock blacktop rods tip the balance at 485g

    The Piston + pin + snap-ring + gapped rings tip the balance at 442.3g. All that's missing is the weight of the rod bearing but the final assembly should be well under the 950g mark.

    I'll try to assemble everything tonight and if time permits, throw everything in the bloc.
    TE31 1977 - 2T-B (traded)
    KE20 1974 - Destroked 7A, project "bigblock A meets peanut" Link to build thread (Sold)
    AE95 1990 - 4A-GZE daily driven wagon...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    The rest was close to perfect : piston + pin + snap-ring + gapped ring were all within 0.2g of each other... good job Toyota!
    When I went to accomplish a similar feat with my 1uz piston+rod assemblies I found that the factory toyota parts were all ?1 gram. In fact, 6 assemblies were the same mass, and one assembly was a gram heavier, one assembly was a gram lighter. I was very proud to be a toyota owner that day.


    Now I think it's time I mentioned something: I think about this build at least once every three days, and I've told my coworkers and even my wife about it... WHY DOESNT IT RUN YET!!!??? I have a compulsion to hear this thing run and therapy is just going to be too expensive - so make it happen!

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