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Thread: Tweaking the 86. No..Tweaking!

  1. #1
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    Tweaking the 86. No..Tweaking!

    I've done enough ridiculously dense build threads. Now, all I want is to do things step by step, and talk about it.

    I just got my baby out of storage. ****, I forgot how badly Winnipeg Winters sucked balls...

    First stop is to Toyota for an alignment. I was weary of getting them done at Crappy Tire because I can't trust them as far as I can throw a piano, but they had good alignment machines! Or so I thought until I walked into Toyota.




    They have these new machines that hook onto the tyre, so I don't even need to worry about them damaging the rims!


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    Tweaking the 86. No..Tweaking!

    Here are the results:



    I should mention that I had the tech adjust just the toe for now. I want to play with the settings to accommodate my driving style, but now the steering feels really solid.

    It was worthwhile to replace the bushings with TRD units, and put in the manual rack. It's a really comfortable ride, unlike with the Polyurethane bushings I first installed. Made my butt hurt.

    There is still a little play in the steering, but I'd suspect it has to do with the preload on the rack pinion. I doubt it's the Tie Rods because they're new. The Rack was freshly rebuilt. I'm picky about this ****.


    A question: Is the caster adjusted by the tension rods? Also, how did some of the rear measurements change? The tech never worked on that area.
    Last edited by Serendipity; 04-29-2014 at 09:23 PM.

  3. #3
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    Realize that 0.1 deg is 0.100" over a 5' spread (60") which is essentially the length of a rocker panel. That's almost a non-repeatable error. As for clamps, I feel that the rim clamps made by hunter and other companies might be more repeatable than tire clamps, which, IMO are fine for all of our uses.
    - Brian


  4. #4
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    Tweaking the 86. No..Tweaking!

    And yes, shorten the radius rods and bring the tire forwards to increase caster. Otherwise bring the top of the strut forwards to decrease caster (using manual steering camber plates, for instance).

    Lowering the ride height can also increase caster, but this is not a big change. It will affect camber and toe much more than caster.

    Most people will aim for 2.2-3.5 deg caster,
    About 1 deg negative camber and zero toe (pressed). Slight toe in will feel better at freeway speeds. Slight toe out will feel better at autoX. I have a preference for 3.5 caster but less caster will offer slightly better turn in, IMO.

    It all boils down to the intended purpose of the car.
    Last edited by Brian; 04-29-2014 at 10:55 PM.
    - Brian


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    Tweaking the 86. No..Tweaking!

    Thank you Brian for the information, and to oldskoolkool for the PM. It seems like my caster is a bit high, although I reproduced my previous setting by measuring the distance from the tension rod end to where the first bushing lay.

    Now that I think about it, it probably wasn't very accurate as I changed bushings... In any case, I will play around with the Caster once I install Derek's RCAs.

    One of my next projects is reducing the noise in the cabin. A number of factors are contributing to this:

    -No rubber floor insulation. I removed it to treat some rust. I can't foresee doing much to help this until after the final bodywork and paint. For now, I'll just deal with it.

    -No insulation between the roof and headliner. Again, related to the previous comment.

    -Rear end Noise. My SR5 diff was louder, but let's see what we can do here. I noticed a huge difference after I removed the rubber floor insulation.

    -Transmission and TRD Short Shifter. I installed it with a new bushing, but it still vibrates at mid to high RPM. B-rock!! Where are you with your bronze bushing kit?! I wonder if it would make less noise if I exchanged my CUSCO Trans mount with an OEM unit?

    -Throw Out Bearing. I installed a new Throw Out Bearing with a used OEM clutch. I have a feeling their uneven mating is contributing to the extra noise.

    Fuel Pump. I really regret installing a Walbro Pump in my tank. I want a quiet OEM DENSO unit. Any suggestions?

    It all amounts to a bit of noise. The quieter, the more comfortable, I say.
    Last edited by Serendipity; 05-02-2014 at 03:05 PM.

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    Apparently it's not possible for anyone else to reply to this thread. Can one of the mods please fix this?!

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    This evening I serviced the brakes and adjusted the e-brake cable. It made a HUGE difference to the pedal feel.

    The Driver's side front line had some air in it, which, once bled firmed up the pedal noticeably. I also noticed a slight glazing (and squealing in the front) on my rotors, which I intend to fix by taking a bunch of progressive braking runs to heat cycle the system. What are your opinions of this? I could have also used sandpaper to the same effect, no? Would the glazing be caused by storing my car for the winter or from driving short runs?

    In adjusting the e-brake cable I noticed that there was no flat washer separating the locking nuts and the e-brake handle. That seems a little sloppy, don't you think? Without the washer, the bottom nut could slip into the handle crevice slightly. I added a temporary washer while I search for one more appropriately sized.

    I did have a question relating to my clutch. Occasionally (like once every 10 times), when I clutch in to shift from first to second, I feel that the clutch doesn't disengage fully. Does this mean I need to bleed the clutch or replace the fluid? It doesn't do this in any other gear, and only happens when it's cold. The master and fluid is 3 years old, and has about 10,000km on it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
    I did have a question relating to my clutch. Occasionally (like once every 10 times), when I clutch in to shift from first to second, I feel that the clutch doesn't disengage fully. Does this mean I need to bleed the clutch or replace the fluid? It doesn't do this in any other gear, and only happens when it's cold. The master and fluid is 3 years old, and has about 10,000km on it.
    sounds more like synchros to me... i've never owned an 80's toyota that didnt crunch a little into second when cold. I've found that synthetic gear oils are a little better for shifting feel in lower temps.

  9. #9
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    I'm running Redline MT-90, and the synchros are new. I also recently replaced the 1-2 hub and fork. I guess it's just the style of transmission.

  10. #10
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    Tweaking the 86. No..Tweaking!

    This past weekend, I installed B-rock's bronze shifter bushing, and serviced my TRD short shifter. Now I need some input:

    There is still a shifter noise at mid-low and high rpm. When I hear the noise, if I pull up on the shifter, it gets a couple shades quieter. Not silent, but quieter.

    Could my CUSCO Polyurethane trans bushing exacerbate this noise? Should I replace it with OEM Rubber? My Engine Mounts aren't great either. Original rubber bushings. A bit of slop there, but I can't see that affecting the shifter noise.

    I cleaned out my shifter, and regreased everything. It helped the noise, but the improvement went away in a few days. Did the grease fall out? Should I have packed the fulcrum area with grease?? Some of the internal parts had a sharp lip to it. Should I have knocked those down?


    I don't want to go to an OEM shifter if I don't have to. The bronze bushing did indeed help improve my shifting feel! There's much more positive-feedback now. The Delrin bushing was brand new three years ago.



    Last edited by Serendipity; 05-22-2014 at 08:20 PM.

  11. #11
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    $70 alignment to adjust the front toe. Alignment shops never go to the trouble of centering the steering rack either. :/

    /end complaint.
    SpeedHero

    Spirit of the Street, King of Sport

  12. #12
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    Do you think the noise is generated by the shifter, or is the noise from elsewhere and the shifter is where you hear it? Sounds like the later, maybe. Grease everything.... The pivot point in the big ball especially, since they wear out. (Did you grease the bushing, btw?).

    You mentioned the throw-out bearing before.... You know that the TO bearing is engaged only when you have your foot on the clutch, right?
    $28 Bronze T50 shifter bushings HERE

  13. #13
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    TRD shifter resonance. They all do it. There is a reason the OEM one has that big rubber filled section.

    You can try adding mass to the shifter itself. Hose clamp some big HEAVY bolts to it and see if the tone changes or then comes on at a different RPM.

    But again, I have never heard a TRD short shifter that didn't have that little buzz at certain RPM range.
    1987 Corolla GTS Hatch | 1985 Corolla GTS Coupe | 1987 Corolla GTS Coupe | 1992 Tercel CE | 1992 Paseo | 2003 Corolla CE | 1974 Corolla 4 Door | 1978 Corolla Coupe | 1979 Corolla Hatch SR5 | <3||||||1990 Miata |||||| <3
    I like Toyota's wanna fight about it?

  14. #14
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    Yup, that buzz just let's you know you're one fast sonofabitch

    Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by b-rock View Post
    Do you think the noise is generated by the shifter, or is the noise from elsewhere and the shifter is where you hear it? Sounds like the later, maybe. Grease everything.... The pivot point in the big ball especially, since they wear out. (Did you grease the bushing, btw?).

    You mentioned the throw-out bearing before.... You know that the TO bearing is engaged only when you have your foot on the clutch, right?
    Yes, thank you Brock. The TO Bearing noise disappears when I engage the clutch. And I greased EVERYTHING.

    As I said, I'm able to soften the noise of I pull up on the shifter when it appears. Would it help if I added a small washer to compress the shifter spring more?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitobread View Post
    TRD shifter resonance. They all do it. There is a reason the OEM one has that big rubber filled section.

    You can try adding mass to the shifter itself. Hose clamp some big HEAVY bolts to it and see if the tone changes or then comes on at a different RPM.

    But again, I have never heard a TRD short shifter that didn't have that little buzz at certain RPM range.
    Thanks Joel. That's a great idea, and I will try it. Would it help also if I packed the shift area with grease? To keep it lubed, and to add mass?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
    Would it help if I added a small washer to compress the shifter spring more?
    That's exactly what I was going to suggest you try... but I doubt it will work... It'll probably be tricky to fix because you need to dampen the unit. The OE shifter must do a lot to kill resonance (like a harmonic balancer) as well as just normal noise.

    A similar thing happens with cellos and basses between the bridge and tailpiece... (google "cello wolf eliminator"). Adding one strategically placed weight at the resonating node of the shifter should kill it... If that's what's happening.... Like a heavy collar you can slide and lock.... A collar with a set-screw.... Give me the shifter o.d. and I'll make one for you out of 1" bronze (fer free).... Paint it.

    Fixing the resonance won't kill the normal driveline noise killed by the OE shifter....
    Last edited by b-rock; 05-23-2014 at 08:51 AM.
    $28 Bronze T50 shifter bushings HERE

  18. #18
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    Thanks Brock. I'll do that. Are you sure your last name isn't Stradivarius??

  19. #19
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    Oh... I had a thought about your notchy shifts into second... Short shifters are also "quick shifters"... They can make you shift too fast for the synchros to do their job.... Slow your shifts down and let the transmission snick into gear the way it wants... A synchro is kind of like a brake.. slowing a gear so's it can engage at the same speed as the next (think of a female cone engaging a male cone). A slight pause will allow the gear to slow on its own and minimize the work the synchro has to do.
    $28 Bronze T50 shifter bushings HERE

  20. #20
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    Tweaking the 86. No..Tweaking!

    I hear ya, pal. My problem wasn't in engagement of 2nd, but in disengagement of 1st. It seems your bushing has solved this issue by tightening up the slop.

    It was bouncing back slightly when I shifted. I never thought newish Delrin could be so loose.
    Last edited by Serendipity; 05-23-2014 at 11:34 AM.

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