Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45

Thread: Ae86 engine Rebuild

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    167

    Ae86 engine Rebuild

    Well I am actually looking to do a complete engine rebuild on and AE86 sometime in the future as a project. And I mean like bottom end rebuild cleaning every nut and every nook and cranny with q-tips and simple green to make it look new becuz I have OCD like that lol. I have found that it makes me happy, don't judge me . Anyways when I say in the future I mean maybe like next summer or next year becuz I am going to be working on motorcycle in springtime for don't know how long and I don't even own a GTS ae86 yet. But for some reason I know that the ideal car will find it's way into my hands when the time comes.

    Anyways for now I would just like to learn about the engine. I'm gonna be using the repair manual to help when I do the engine rebuild. If you've done work on the engine please give any input if there is something that you think I need to know when doing this rebuild and let's chat on this thread or PM. (Keep in mind I have never owned an AE86)

    Thanks
    GTyeS!
    from Toronto

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Aldergrove, BC
    Posts
    725
    Cleanliness is next to Godliness! Seriously. Cleaning and surface prep is crucial on Rebuilds, as is clearances. Don't half step on clearances or worn out parts. Also, make sure your "cleaning" Products don't contaminate your mating surfaces. If you have never done it before, learn to use and read the tools properly that you will be using to build the engine. This is crucial. Like : Outside mic's, inside mic's, snap gauges, feeler gauges, dial indicators etc. Any monkey can throw an engine together, doing it proper is a whole other ball game.


    Custom/Race Work, Chassis setup and Fabrication. Follow my Racing Shenanigans!!! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trew-...8143224?ref=hl

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    241
    Put aside lots of cash!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    v isl
    Posts
    4,649
    The parts cost alone of rebuilding a 4AGE is huge. And that's doing the work yourself.

    Buy an SR5 ae86. Strip it. Put some kind of cool drivetrain in.

    It'll be faster and cheaper than just a regular GTS.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Brampton, Ontario
    Posts
    1,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugwillis View Post
    Buy an SR5 ae86. Strip it. Put some kind of cool drivetrain in.

    It'll be faster and cheaper than just a regular GTS.
    BEAMS is cool, but 1UZ is always the answer.

    Also, what bike you building?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Beyond the Sun
    Posts
    1,281
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugwillis View Post
    Buy an SR5 ae86. Strip it. Put some kind of cool drivetrain in.
    I agree. I came at it from this angle too.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    977
    Rebuilding your own engine is super f*cking fun. It's awesome to feel the mysteries disappear as you prepare and do it the first time. If you're smart and patient you can easily dial it the first time.

    Consider what you want from your car and how much power you really need.... and how much gas you want to burn.... and how much weight you want to lug around corners. A fresh 4AGE is a beautiful thing and is great in a normal road car. Dream of drifting or really want a muscle car and you need more power (1UZ grip-handling sacrifice!).

    Check out Jafromobile's vids on Youtube if you want a sense of what an OCD home rebuild is like. He does Mitsubishi 4G63s, but it's basically the same except for the valve train (lifters and rockers instead of 4GAE's flat tappets direct on the cam). He has some good tips (like coffee filters for pre-assembly cleaning) -- and he's a dork. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...971FF4F38CC85F

    It's also fine to plan a whole bunch of crazy sh*t and then change your mind.

    Other than that: Use Toyota crank bearings -- Micro polish the journals and cams (yourself) -- Demagnetize anything you disassembled with a magnet -- Clean until you see no black residue at all -- Get the oil galley ball plugs out of the crank (lol) -- Don't get seduced by expensive forged pistons unless you go turbo..... and figure out that racing valve springs actually cost power.
    Last edited by b-rock; 12-30-2014 at 02:06 PM.
    $28 Bronze T50 shifter bushings HERE

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    167
    Hey Guys thanks for all the replies!

    Dirt-McGirt:

    Thanks for the advice bro, I will look into those things you said, in fact I already have lol , google is wonderful thing. Most of those I've seen and used b4 but some I have never seen like feeler guage haha. I am using Simple Green as cleaning agent it is a 100% bio degradable grease destroyer. Green bottle is great there is also blue which is like 5 times more potent, it works like magic.

    Aaron:

    Cash? mannn... I wanted to pay for it using peanut butter ...

    Dugwillis:

    Dugwillis I agree with you it is way too expensive. I will avoid buying expensive parts like pistons and crankshaft etc. Maybe replace rings and gaskets and whatever else crap is damaged and then just clean and restore/renew everything else. Gonna try to keep cost down to min but man I think putting money into an engine like this and buying some parts for it is worth it tbh.

    Serendipity and Dugwillis:

    Man Sr5... I am really leaning towards the GTS. My name says it all. I would be betraying my own name if I didn't get it.

    Sparkie:

    BEAMS? 1UZ engine seems to be mentioned a lot, what car is it from?

    B-rock:

    Thanks for the post, I'm glad someone sees it my way wooo. Yah man I think I'm gonna have a blast doing it. I will swear like hell when I run into on binds but hey that's all part of it.

    I can't believe it, sacrifice the 4age for more power? Ahhh, nooooo. Normal road car is fine for me lol.

    Thanks for links to Jafromobiles always good to watch someone else doing it first. Gonna check em out.

    And some interesting tips. Toyota doesn't make parts for this car anymore or do they do speacial request? DEmagnitze... interesting, why? Why do the racing springs reduce power?
    Last edited by GTyeS!; 12-30-2014 at 09:58 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Brampton, Ontario
    Posts
    1,488
    Beams is from some Japanese cars, Is a 3s-ge made awesome. The 1uz is found in Lexus ls400s and sc400s.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    977
    Quote Originally Posted by GTyeS! View Post
    Toyota doesn't make parts for this car anymore or do they do speacial request? DEmagnitze... interesting, why? Why do the racing springs reduce power?
    They still support engine rebuild parts.... Get familiar with part numbers on ToyoDIY... http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/g_U_198...-ECMQFA_1.html Find a part number and then punch it into their search to see where it was used otherwise..

    Demagnetize... It's an anal thing few people do.... but picking out a little part like valve shims with a super-powerful rare earth magnet zaps the part and it becomes magnetic -- and attracts tiny pieces of magnetic iron suspended in the oil after you've put it all back together -- and that's bad. Small demagnetizers are like $3.00.

    Racing valve springs are a lot stronger... to avoid very high rpm (higher than stock) valve float... They do let an engine rev higher safely and can therefore make more power, but it takes a lot more energy for the cams to actuate valves with strong springs.... So they use some of the engine's power so they can allow a higher rev to make more power way up there... A big trade off in a road car, but necessary in a race car. Valve float: (you can't see the springs in a 4AGE).



    The thing I love about 4AGEs -- especially the 20V is that Yamaha designed the heads like motorcycle heads... with really light valves and light springs... to have as low a sacrificial power loss as possible... and a high rpm... Normal motorcycle engineering, but not so much with cars back in the 80's and 90's. The valves of a 20V are tiny -- and the springs only need to be light and not very strong.... 20Vs is a lot of sacrificial power loss otherwise. 16V is similar but a little bigger. They are amazing late 70's and early 80's race engines for the road, really.
    Last edited by b-rock; 12-30-2014 at 11:22 PM.
    $28 Bronze T50 shifter bushings HERE

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    167
    Sparkie :

    Hey I lookedup 3S-Ge. Man that sounds pretty cool, I am tempted, must resist and stick with the 4AGE! lol. They used that engine in Japan for the Celica GTS, mmm. Still interesting to know, I wonder what is the latest year 3S-GE engine that could be mounted into the AE86 Corolla.

    BTW I forgot to say the bike is a 1984 Honda CB650SC Nighthawk. Lot's of work to do on it.

    B-rock:

    That is good news, I didn't know they supported rebuilds! Thanks for site

    Demagnetizing here I come. OCD!

    That makes sense, if the springs are strong the cam would need more power to press them down. It seems like Yamaha designs most of toyotas engines? Did they do this since the very beginning ? I really like Toyota engines but I guess it's Yamaha that has to get the credit for the awesome work, maybe jumping from making sewing machines to car engines was too much of a big jump for for Toyota so that's why they called the Yamsinator !

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    977
    Yamaha designed just the heads -- I think all the way up to the BEAMS 3SGE and beyond...

    Any RWD 3SGE is the same amount of work to stick in a RWD Corolla... They don't just pop in. Lots of fabricating mounts and this and that... driveshaft... Super nice engine. Great way to modernize a RWD Corolla. Not much of a weight penalty (mostly in the 6sp transmission -- and that's in the middle).... Spendy and complicated to do -- at least more than an stock rebuild...
    $28 Bronze T50 shifter bushings HERE

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Brampton, Ontario
    Posts
    1,488
    Beams blacktop (RWD motor from japan), in an 86. Also dont get too hard on about GTS vsv SR5 if you're going to swap urrthan' over - the frames are the sames. clean shell > 85 cooties any day.

    http://www.dorikaze.net/showthread.p...use&highlight=
    http://www.dorikaze.net/showthread.p...E86&highlight=

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Newmarket, Ontario
    Posts
    723
    Quote Originally Posted by b-rock View Post
    Yamaha designed just the heads -- I think all the way up to the BEAMS 3SGE and beyond...

    Any RWD 3SGE is the same amount of work to stick in a RWD Corolla... They don't just pop in. Lots of fabricating mounts and this and that... driveshaft... Super nice engine. Great way to modernize a RWD Corolla. Not much of a weight penalty (mostly in the 6sp transmission -- and that's in the middle).... Spendy and complicated to do -- at least more than an stock rebuild...
    Yamaha designs all of toyotas performance heads which are designated by the "G" as the second last letter in the engine code.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Kumamoto Japan
    Posts
    2,515
    I'm actually doing this right now. I have the whole thing stripped down to nothing, and I just took a week off so I could start putting it back together. I plan on probably blowing it up the first time, but I guess that's part of the fun! My biggest worry now is that I got ACL crank bearings instead of Toyota ones. Should I really go get some other bearings?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Brampton, Ontario
    Posts
    1,488
    Blade, I'm using acl race on my 1uz. No assplosion yet

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    977
    The only real reason to use Toyota bearings is to totally, totally dial the oil clearances... OE "Standard" size is split into something like 5 different sizes separated by only .01mm (.0004") -- because it's easier and way cheaper to grind the crank journal to a size range and then match it to a bearing than it is to nail the journal perfect every time to fit a single-sized bearing. Modern engines are VERY finicky about their oil clearances -- especially the new ones spec'd for 0W30 oil. You can use any bearing you want if the oil clearances spec out -- it's not so much the quality of the bearing as it is the clearance. I know with 4AGEs, ACLs come in one standard and one oversize.... and they would have wacked my clearances all over the place.... Technically within range, but not totally blueprinted as new. Whether all this really matters in the real world when your car is probably going to rust away or whatever before the rebuilt journals give it up from a non-blueprint clearance... It's probably more OCD peace of mind. And race engines usually LIKE a bigger clearance... Hence ACL "Race" bearings..... they're an extra .001" bigger for more oil.... .001" is huge.... err, well BIG, anyway.
    Last edited by b-rock; 01-01-2015 at 01:41 PM.
    $28 Bronze T50 shifter bushings HERE

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Aldergrove, BC
    Posts
    725
    Before final assembly, you CANNOT use stuff like simple green as a final whip down. Its good to get rid of heavy soil, but that's it. Its actually pretty slick and penetrates things. When doing a final assembly, I always use Alcohol as a final cleaner, or a GOOD brake clean. This is especially important on bearing surfaces and caps, and gasket mating surfaces. Being anal on how you prep will make a big difference. Some ****, like Teflon, can actually impregnate the metals. So be very careful.

    As for demagnetizing. I have never done it. If you build and break your engine in proper, there should be no **** (metal debris) in the oil. The filter will catch any kind of **** that may be left over from machining . If this was the case, when you tear and engine down, some parts would look like a magnetized oil drain plug. Guess how many engine builders have seen that...

    Now for your oil clearances and bearing choice, what you have read or are saying is pretty old school, and ill do my best to give you a little insight into a proper race engine, not a drag car that needs to live a couple pass's.

    Standard or generic bearings, have a lot more Babbitt. This is the soft layer that is used to pick up small debris over time, and not "catch" on the crank. Hence why it is used on standard vehicles that have a long service life. Now race bearings, have less or harder Babbitt. They are not designed to accept ****ty oil change intervals or negligence. Especially full aluminum units with no Babbitt. you Have debris, it catches, you spin bearing. (I have never used them, nor will I)

    Now clearances. Loose is better is horse **** for 90% of builds. Its an old hot rodder thing, or for people who generally don't have experience with engines that need to last. Tight bearings, loose rings is common on heavy service, or endurance engines.

    Reason why, is volume. With a clearance that is on the tighter side, you can run thinner oil and have the same oil pressure with less of a work load on the oil pump. But you will get the added benefit of more VOLUME. You will also produce more HP, as there is less viscosity drag. That's why most new (Eco) cars have clearances tighter than a nuns ass.

    Last Porsche Cup I built and supported for the 24hrs of Rolex ran on Mobil 1, 0-w****ing something. Mobile 1 and PMNA was actually pissed when they found out we were running 5-w30 Liquid Molly. But the car finished, and it got better times and gas millage wich is huge for endurance racing. So im not talking about stuff I have read, its from stuff I have done and seen.

    My suggestion. Decent Bearings, factory is great. Stay on the tight side of factory for both mains and rods. Take what you read with a grain of salt and stay close to factory specs. (unless you are going nutz on a build, then you wouldn't need to ask)
    Last edited by Dirt-McGirt; 01-01-2015 at 07:44 PM.


    Custom/Race Work, Chassis setup and Fabrication. Follow my Racing Shenanigans!!! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trew-...8143224?ref=hl

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    167
    Just watched on of Jafros videos, man he is kick ass, I love the way this guy works. My OCD approves When he is using that white board to write all his findings, it makes me happy inside lmao. Funny how I said I didn't know what feeler guages and he explains it int his vid *headsmack*

    Sparkie man **** that that Beams engine in that link is a completely different beast. It's a huge bitch, I see why b-rock says its a lot of work to adapt it in to the ae86.

    I guarantee you guys that when I am working on my engine I will come back and read these things you guys posted about clearances and part sizes like 100 times because of my OCD

    **** man I don't even know what babbit is, I R teh noob . I need to do some research.

    I would like to thank all you guys for all your info and input. Keep it coming guys!

    Cheers
    GtyeS!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    241
    Just looked up my receipts. Cost $2200 just in machine work for my rebuild and some of that was cash prices.
    Put aside lots of cash.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •