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Thread: Please help diagnose my GT-S! Fuel Pump Failure or????

  1. #1
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    Please help diagnose my GT-S! Fuel Pump Failure or????

    Ok, I'm going to try and make this short and sweet

    The Car:
    1986 Toyota Corolla GT-S
    Original 4A-GE Motor
    155,000 Original Kms
    Has been sitting outside for at least 3 years


    The Story:
    I bought this car about 3 weeks ago.
    So when I wanted to attempt to try and start it for the first time in a while, I knew I would want to change the oil and oil filter and spark plugs just to be safe.
    So I did.
    I checked the other fluids, they seem to be ok.
    I put about 4 litres of 91 Octane Gas into it.
    I plugged in a battery in it and all it would do is crank.
    Whenever I'd switch the key in the "ON" position, I didn't hear the fuel pump priming (making that buzzing noise).

    So i figured it was my fuel pump. Then, I did some research about bypassing it by connecting a wire into the Bp and B+ or something like that in the Diagnostics outlet right next to the wiper motor.

    When i did that, I heard the fuel pump running.

    I ran straight into the drivers seat to start it and it ran GREAT!

    So I was stoked about it! Maybe it was just a "stuck" Fuel Pump I thought.

    This was about 3 weeks ago. I have started this car about 10 times since then.

    So just today, I tried to start it again.
    All it would do is crank once again. I tried bypassing the fuel pump again, but there was NO SOUND coming from the fuel pump. At all.

    Could my fuel pump be dead now? Could it be something else?

    IMPORTANT NOTES I SHOULD MENTION TOO:
    -Since i got the fuel pump "Unstuck"3 weeks ago, I still WOULD NOT hear the fuel pump priming when the key is in the "ON" Position

    -When the car is idling, I CAN HEAR the fuel pump very loudly (abnormally loud buzzing)

    -The first time I would start the car it would take about 3 seconds to fire up and idle. But once the engine got warm, every time I would start it, it would almost take 7 or 8 seconds to start. It struggles to start after the engine got warm.

    -The Circuit Opening Relay (COR), the Ignition Relay and all the other fuses seem to be OK. I HAVE NOT Checked the Air Flow Meter (AFM) Yet.


    Please help me get my newly purchased GT-S back on the road! All help would be a blessing to me.

    Thank you.
    Richy

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    "If I can do it, anybody can"

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  2. #2
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    Bypass powers the pump directly through the 15a EFI fuse.

    COR relay is on (powers the fuel pump) either while the afm is flowing air or during cranking only.

    If the pump has power and isn't spinning then it's broken.

  3. #3
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    I ran something from my tail lights to check it. I found my problem (as most it has seemed) was wiring.

  4. #4
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    You could have a rusty ground connection for the fuel pump on top of the fuel tank. It is very common and will give you unpredictable performance.
    FYI- If you leave the key in the Run or On position, then push open the flapper door in the Air Flow Meter, it activates the fuel pump so you can hear it running.
    Hope this helps.
    Dentman
    2002 & 2005 Capital City Speedway ministock champion
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    3-7th Gen Celica road and race cars
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  5. #5
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    The car does not prime the fuel pump when turning the key to on, it only runs when cranking (COR) and/or once it's running (AFM), so not sure what that buzzing sound you heard was.

    If you jump FP and B in the diagnostic connector, do you get 12V at the pump? If you turn the key to On and push open the AFM, do you get 12V at the pump? If you're getting 12V at the pump, but no fuel pressure at the rail, I would suspect the pump, otherwise you may find you have some wiring, AFM, or COR issue(s).

    Jeff

    2011 GSE20 Lexus IS350 6MT F-Sport with LSD
    2005 NCP13 Toyota Yaris RS 5MT Hatchback
    1993 TCR10 Team Mondor Toyota Previa GT-S RM 5MT Studded Ice Race Van
    1986 AE86 Toyota Corolla GT-S 5MT Supercharged

  6. #6
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    How do you push the flapper door in the AFM? I have not actually looked at the Air Flow Meter yet so i don't know how yet...
    "If I can do it, anybody can"

    Mr Nice Guy

    604-889-5143
    richyrich517@hotmail.com


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lange View Post
    The car does not prime the fuel pump when turning the key to on, it only runs when cranking (COR) and/or once it's running (AFM), so not sure what that buzzing sound you heard was.

    If you jump FP and B in the diagnostic connector, do you get 12V at the pump? If you turn the key to On and push open the AFM, do you get 12V at the pump? If you're getting 12V at the pump, but no fuel pressure at the rail, I would suspect the pump, otherwise you may find you have some wiring, AFM, or COR issue(s).

    Jeff
    I will check if i have 12V at the pump. And, I also will try and push the AFM too when time permits... Thank you for your input.
    "If I can do it, anybody can"

    Mr Nice Guy

    604-889-5143
    richyrich517@hotmail.com


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Nice Guy View Post
    How do you push the flapper door in the AFM? I have not actually looked at the Air Flow Meter yet so i don't know how yet...
    remove the filter and poke it with your finger or a stick. if you go the stick route try not to leave bits of stick inside when you're done.

  9. #9
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    Ok guys, so I started to tackle replacing the Fuel Filter tonight and I've successfully removed the top bolt from it, but I am having a very difficult time trying and loosening the bottom nut where the fuel hardline meets the bottom of the Fuel Filter. It doesn't seem to want to budge at all...

    Is the fuel filter attached simply by "screwing it on" or is there some different technique on removing it?
    Here's a photo of the bottom of the Fuel Filter:
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    "If I can do it, anybody can"

    Mr Nice Guy

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    richyrich517@hotmail.com


  10. #10
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    use a 19MM or 17mm (I forgot)and a 14M brake line wrench. Rest should be common sense. Good luck!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by xherrox View Post
    use a 19MM or 17mm (I forgot)and a 14M brake line wrench. Rest should be common sense. Good luck!
    Did exactly that tonight and it came out with ease! (after some swearing because the bolt was on so damn tight).

    Thanks for the input, brother!
    Now on to the Gas Tank and Fuel Pump....
    "If I can do it, anybody can"

    Mr Nice Guy

    604-889-5143
    richyrich517@hotmail.com


  12. #12
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    Sitrep:

    So tonight I tried to remove the gas tank... I have successfully removed the two rubber hoses, but I need clarification on which fuel hardline I should remove:
    Do I remove the hardline directly above the Gas Tank? (Which looks pretty difficult to get at)
    OR, do I remove the other one that seems to be at the other end?
    PLEASE SEE PHOTOS... One photo shows the hardline directly above the gas tank, and the other one shows the other hardline end that is easier to get to...

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ID:	14720 <--- This is the hardline directly on top of the fuel tank...

    Also, what are the BEST tools to get at these nuts? (no pun intended)

    Thanks guys once again for your help...
    "If I can do it, anybody can"

    Mr Nice Guy

    604-889-5143
    richyrich517@hotmail.com


  13. #13
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    What are you doing, listen to Jeff 99% of old ****ty 86 have issues with the AFM. Jump the FP and B in the diagnostic connector in your engine bay with a paper clip. If that doesn't work then start ripping the fuel system apart

    Quote Originally Posted by woodenturn View Post
    DK should ban such nonsense. 2 cents~ sr86 www.dorikaze.net/showthread.php?32933-Elizabeth

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LastLatvian View Post
    What are you doing, listen to Jeff 99% of old ****ty 86 have issues with the AFM. Jump the FP and B in the diagnostic connector in your engine bay with a paper clip. If that doesn't work then start ripping the fuel system apart
    I have determined that I would need to change my Fuel Filter, Fuel Tank, and Fuel Pump because when I purchased the car, it has been sitting for a very long time. I have bypassed the FP & B+ ports and concluded that there is something wrong with the fuel pump. I also checked the Air Flow Meter, and also checked the Circuit Opening Relay. All seem to be working properly. I have also checked the grounds and they also seem to be good.

    Now, I am simply getting advice on which fuel hardline to remove...
    "If I can do it, anybody can"

    Mr Nice Guy

    604-889-5143
    richyrich517@hotmail.com


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Nice Guy View Post
    I have determined that I would need to change my Fuel Filter, Fuel Tank, and Fuel Pump because when I purchased the car, it has been sitting for a very long time. I have bypassed the FP & B+ ports and concluded that there is something wrong with the fuel pump. I also checked the Air Flow Meter, and also checked the Circuit Opening Relay. All seem to be working properly. I have also checked the grounds and they also seem to be good.

    Now, I am simply getting advice on which fuel hardline to remove...
    sorry I just saw the part about time permitting to do the AFM and its the first step. The fuel lines discount on top of the tank, make sure you drain the lines before removing them. The front lines discount at the filter. Make sure when you're pulling them apart to not twist the lines. Lastly the fuel tank is held up by two straps with two bolts near the rear axle, make sure you remove the fuel filler cap and pump/fuel level wiring before lowering the tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodenturn View Post
    DK should ban such nonsense. 2 cents~ sr86 www.dorikaze.net/showthread.php?32933-Elizabeth

  16. #16
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    Also when you're dropping the tank: if the bolts wont come you can drive out the pivot pins on the other side. It gets the tank in and out easier than messing with the bolts if they're knackered.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie View Post
    Also when you're dropping the tank: if the bolts wont come you can drive out the pivot pins on the other side. It gets the tank in and out easier than messing with the bolts if they're knackered.
    Yes! And on a lot of the old 86s, taking out the old pivot pin clips will likely result in having to get new ones. But it's a good idea; new tank bolts, pivot pins and clips. Solid.

  18. #18
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    Did you get the tank out? It looks like you have two hard line connections to disconnect (One for fuel out from the pump - the bigger one; and one for the return line - the smaller one.)
    I have a couple of sets of nut-grabbing vice grips that are the cat's behind for getting those stuck fittings apart. Line wrenches are also useful, but can still round off the fitting.
    If you can't get them apart, cut the hard line with a pipe cutting tool or hacksaw near the old fitting. You can replace the fittings with new ones.
    Hope this helps.
    2002 & 2005 Capital City Speedway ministock champion
    2- 3rd gen Celica Stock Cars; 85 Celica GTS Convertible
    3-7th Gen Celica road and race cars
    86 Cressida wagon with a w58 swap
    Many Toyota Trucks

    "It's better to be in the race for a second than to spectate forever." St Merlin

  19. #19
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    UPDATE ON THE GT-S:

    Tonight, I've successfully removed the gas tank!
    It took a lot of swearing and penetrating lubricant, but I've managed to disconnect the hardline without snapping or shearing the bolt!
    Now on to installing the NEW fuel tank and pump!!!
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  20. #20
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    I think DK has had one of these threads per year for infinity

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