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Thread: Serendipity's comprehensive AE86 J160 swap

  1. #1
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    Serendipity's comprehensive AE86 J160 swap

    My AE86 started as an automatic SR5. The first project my dad and I did together, aside from the basic maintenance stuff, was converting her to a five speed T50. Here's our project on that:

    http://www.dorikaze.net/showthread.p...6-5-speed-swap


    So my current setup is:
    -OEM 20V Blacktop
    -SS Works waterline kit
    -OEM Redtop AE92 flywheel and clutch (6.9kg)
    -Cusco Engine Mounts (10mm thinner than TRD/OEM)
    -T50 5 speed transmission
    -Team M factory taller 5th gear, second generation (.737)
    -TRD short shifter
    -Using redline MT-90 gear oil
    -Fully rebuilt OEM driveshaft with serviceable ujoints
    -Weir Performance 4.778 Ring and Pinion
    -Zenki 2 Way TRD Limited Slip Transmission


    The T50 was a huge upgrade from the "3 speed" auto. I say "3 speed" because when I bought the car, the overdrive solenoid wasn't engaging. After spending some time with the T50, it seems that:

    -it was originally a 70's 4 speed that TOYOTA simply added a 5th gear to. Poor engineering.
    -the gearing is completely mismatched to what a 4age with it's narrow torque band needs. Poor engineering
    -one of the two TRD close ratio kits that could fix this mismatched gearing is discontinued and the other, which in my humble opinion is inferior to the first, is far too expensive. Boo earns.
    -taller 5th gears are available, but are not under regular production. With a 4.78 ring & pinion, highway RPM is at around 4175RPM @110km/hr. Something to consider.
    -they don't handle torque well. I lost track of how many the local drift guys went trough each season. Sucks to be you.
    -finding a rebuild kit was near impossible until a fellow DK member put together a full rebuild kit including the discontinued caged needle bearings he had custom made to compete the set. Good on ya, mate.
    -although parts are getting harder to find, it's a relatively easy transmission to work on. Not bad at all.

    So all in all, you'll keep your T50 if you want a period correct TOYOTA or if you're still saving up for the most logical upgrade, a J160 6 speed from an 98'-05' Altezza. Or, you could also get a nearly bulletproof transmission from Quaife, but it'll cost you around 7000 British Pounds for the transmission itself without bellhousing or ancillary parts.
    Last edited by Serendipity; 02-25-2018 at 12:46 AM.

  2. #2
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    Project duration: October 2017 to present

    Thanks Dad for your contribution, supervision and patience.


    Thanks to those who helped me find information or parts:

    Warren
    Oldeskewltoy
    666 (Derek)
    Sam Q

    Services & Parts Rendered:
    BC Works: Test fitting, fabrication, and installation of the transmission
    Bullfrog Transmission: Servicing the transmission
    Streeter Corporation: Overnight Parts from Japan
    SQ Engineering: Necessary swap parts
    PartSouq: OEM TOYOTA parts
    Regency TOYOTA: OEM TOYOTA parts
    Brian Roberts Automotive & Electric: Honda Starter


    PARTS LISZT:

    Transmission:
    J160S 6 speed from a 1998-2005 Toyota Altezza


    Transmission Internals Needed:
    Input shaft seal, OEM: 90311-29001
    Shifter seal, OEM: 90311-18002
    Output shaft seal, OEM: 90311-38140
    Nissan S15 6th gear OEM: 32312-89F00
    Nissan S15 6th counter gear: 32341-89F00


    SQ Engineering parts:
    -J160S adapter kit
    -J160 shifter relocation kit
    -J160 transmission crossmember
    -J160 mechanical speedometer
    -Flywheel locking tool
    -Honda Starter adapter

    Clutch Release Bearing
    40TRK30W2SB


    Flywheel & clutch options:
    TODA kits for 16V (3.7kg):
    http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/prod...eel/4ag-1.html

    TODA kits for 20V (4.4kg):
    http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/prod...eel/4ag-2.html

    Jun Flywheels:
    AE86 Light weight 2001M-T005 (4.1kg)
    AE86 Ultra light weight 2001-T005 (3.6kg)
    AE101 Light weight 2001M-T006 (4.6kg)
    AW11 Light weight 2001M-T007 (4.7kg)
    AE101 GZE Light weight 2001M-T020 (4.8kg)


    OS Giken Clutch & Flywheel:
    Steel cover: TY311-AA4
    Aluminum cover: TY311-AA6

    These come as complete racing flywheel and clutch kits. Consider the following information, quoted from the OSGiken site, before installing one in a street driven car. Check out some YouTube videos too and see for yourself:


    "Q: Why do all OS Giken Race Clutches make a ringing noise when disengaged?

    All OS clutch kits utilize a free-floating pressure plate design. When the clutch pedal is depressed, the clutch plates float within the clutch housing and emit the ringing noise most will hear.

    Traditional clutch designs secure the pressure plate to the cover through the use of a pressure plate drive strap (aka “granny strap”). The advantage of having the granny strap is that clutch operation remains noiseless whether the clutch is engaged or disengaged. However, in many situations where the clutch is being abused (i.e. “spirited” driving and/or racing), the granny strap can become a weak point in the system and has a tendency to bend or break.

    With the OS free-floating pressure plate design, pressure applied to the disks is even throughout the clutch lifespan, and the friction material of the metallic disks is bonded through a specialized process (not riveted). This aids in increasing durability and lengthening the useful service life of our clutches. Power will continue to be transmitted effectively until the disks are extremely thin. Some race teams have gone through multiple seasons on an OS clutch before requiring a rebuild."



    Friction Disk Options
    Clutch industries: R7895W

    Heavy duty pressure plate options
    Clutch industries: RPM800 - 600N

    Compatible clutch part numbers – 212 / 215mm
    Friction disk options
    -Exedy: TYD034U

    -Pressure plate option 1- Heavy duty
    Exedy: TYC549HD - Rating: 490kg clamping force

    -Pressure plate option 2- Extra heavy duty
    Exedy: TYC613HD - Rating: 680kg clamping force



    Starter Options
    -4AG 16V starter (0.8kw)
    -'97-'98 Honda Prelude Starter: Mitsuba SM42228 or SM16960 (1.2kw)
    -Cooldrive 70-2834 (1.4kw)
    -JAS Oceania: SNJ135 (1.6kw)


    Hydraulic System:


    Mounting Parts & Hardware:


    Shifter Options:
    -TRD Altezza short shifter, Discontinued: 33530-SE100
    -C's Altezza short shifter, Discontinued


    Gear Oil Used:
    Redline MT-90 (1.95L)


    Driveline:
    Last edited by Serendipity; 04-15-2018 at 10:34 AM.

  3. #3
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    I'm excited for this post. I dream of such a swap.
    SpeedHero

    Spirit of the Street, King of Sport

  4. #4
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    I ran the j160 in my Levin for about a season and it did really well in certain aspects but also had its issues.

    Good:

    3rd to 4th was really close which kept me in the powerband for larger tracks

    Gears felt realitively well spaced out with the stock 4.3 final drive of the corolla

    6 speed, more gear selection, fun down shifts and heel toes.

    Bad:

    The 6th on the j160 was shorter than the stock 5th in the t50, ended up revving even more on the highways just to keep up with traffic.

    The j160 felt like glass still and shifting would get notchy, I noticed this in the altezza as well.

    2nd to 3rd was awkwardly tall for the ae86 and for certain tracks like mission raceway, I'd much prefer a t50 with a 4.3 or 4.7.

    Fabrication of my j160 was done by AMT machine shop. Hope to see a well written and detailed write up as always! I would do this swap again, but with a 4.778 final drive and just crawl it to the track.

  5. #5
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    Comparison between the J160 and the T50

    OEM T50 gearing:
    1st: 3.587
    2nd: 2.022
    3rd: 1.384
    4th: 1.00
    5th: 0.861

    2nd Generation TeamMFactory 5th: 0.737

    TRD T50 Transmission gearing:
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    OEM and TRD J160 Transmission gearing:
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    OEM Nissan S15 AZ6 6th gear: .767
    Last edited by Serendipity; 01-27-2018 at 09:32 PM.

  6. #6
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    I did a couple months of research, finding out what I would need to do the swap as painless as possible. The majority of the parts needed are made by SQ Engineering in Australia. Sam is super cool to deal with and always gets back to you promptly. I also think it's better to get the majority of parts from one place.

    But before I got the SQ parts, I needed to find a J160. I contacted Jesse Streeter, and he helped me source one. It arrived in lighting fast time from Yahoo Japan. THESE ARE THE BEFORE PICTURES:
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    We sent it to Bullfrog Transmission, because they've been doing great work on my Transmission and Differential projects since I bought my Corolla in 2010. To my surprise, the internals were in perfect shape. All they recommended was a set of new seals and we could reassemble the Transmission. Derek told me to check out PartSouq.com and it proved a perfect choice. OEM catalogues and super quick shipping by FedEx. I got the seals in less than a week from when I placed my order.

    With transmission in hand, I placed an order for the necessary items from SQ. They should arrive after Christmas:
    Last edited by Serendipity; 01-27-2018 at 09:20 PM.

  7. #7
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    if you had the transmission apart, you should have sourced out a taller 6th gear for the J160. One from the S15 Silvia comes to mind, as it appears to have the tallest 6th gear of the AZ6 transmission variants.
    Team おなに

    Motor Village Crew unite!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by death_blossom View Post
    if you had the transmission apart, you should have sourced out a taller 6th gear for the J160. One from the S15 Silvia comes to mind, as it appears to have the tallest 6th gear of the AZ6 transmission variants.
    That's indeed a great idea, but I'm one step ahead of you. Oldeskewltoy from Club4AG helped me find the part numbers for the Nissan S15 6th gear and counter gear. I'm in touch with a couple companies who can source me with gears, http://jp-carparts.com/ being one of them for about ?17,000. They are actually rediculously cheap brand new from Nissan and still currently available. I might go that way too.

    Justin, the transmission is actually still apart, but before Bullfrog puts it back together, they've asked if I can find them an FSM for the SXE10. It's a reasonable request as the J160 never existed in North America. If anyone has diagrams from the FSM or one in its entirety, please let me know. It would help a great help.

  9. #9
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    I would grab the FSM from Lexus Europe TechDoc (or other source) from an IS200 (GXE10). It uses the J160 and the manual will be available in English.

    Alternatively the 86/FR-S TL70 is very similar, but since the manual exists, might as well use the exact one.

    Jeff
    Last edited by Jeff Lange; 01-13-2018 at 05:50 PM.

    2011 GSE20 Lexus IS350 6MT F-Sport with LSD
    2005 NCP13 Toyota Yaris RS 5MT Hatchback
    1993 TCR10 Team Mondor Toyota Previa GT-S RM 5MT Studded Ice Race Van
    1986 AE86 Toyota Corolla GT-S 5MT Supercharged

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
    That's indeed a great idea, but I'm one step ahead of you. Oldeskewltoy from Club4AG helped me find the part numbers for the Nissan S15 6th gear and counter gear. I'm in touch with a couple companies who can source me with gears, http://jp-carparts.com/ being one of them for about ?17,000. They are actually rediculously cheap brand new from Nissan and still currently available. I might go that way too.

    Justin, the transmission is actually still apart, but before Bullfrog puts it back together, they've asked if I can find them an FSM for the SXE10. It's a reasonable request as the J160 never existed in North America. If anyone has diagrams from the FSM or one in its entirety, please let me know. It would help a great help.
    so glad to hear you're already piecing together the "ultimate 6spd"! excited to hear your results when it all comes together.
    Team おなに

    Motor Village Crew unite!

  11. #11
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    Love your build threads Adrian. Looking forward to how this one turns out. What do you think the end cost will be? or I guess a better question is what did you budget for this and have you stayed on budget so far?
    Mat 83 GTS Hatch 87 GTSR5 Coupe
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    If only I put the same amount of effort into my schooling as I do my car. Education is important, but racecar is importanter.
    Stuff I'm Selling
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lange View Post
    I would grab the FSM from Lexus Europe TechDoc (or other source) from an IS200 (GXE10). It uses the J160 and the manual will be available in English.

    Alternatively the 86/FR-S TL70 is very similar, but since the manual exists, might as well use the exact one.

    Jeff
    Thanks, Jeff. I've ordered a J160 manual from Japan. It'll probably be in Japanese, but at least all the torque specs and clearances will be available.

    Quote Originally Posted by projectae86 View Post
    Love your build threads Adrian. Looking forward to how this one turns out. What do you think the end cost will be? or I guess a better question is what did you budget for this and have you stayed on budget so far?
    Thanks, Matt. Your question is hard to answer, but I'll try. I definitely have a monthly budget for car parts, but I've never had a budget for car projects. I have an idea in my mind of what I want the end result to be, and I think about each piece asking the question, "can this be refinished or upgraded?" If the answer is "yes", then I do what I have to. The more steps I need, the longer the project takes. If this sounds strange to you, ask yourself "how many cars do I have/have I had in the last decade?" I've had only this Corolla. I hope that makes sense.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
    Thanks, Jeff. I've ordered a J160 manual from Japan. It'll probably be in Japanese, but at least all the torque specs and clearances will be available.
    Okay, lol, but if you do want the manual in English, it's on that website.

    Jeff

    2011 GSE20 Lexus IS350 6MT F-Sport with LSD
    2005 NCP13 Toyota Yaris RS 5MT Hatchback
    1993 TCR10 Team Mondor Toyota Previa GT-S RM 5MT Studded Ice Race Van
    1986 AE86 Toyota Corolla GT-S 5MT Supercharged

  14. #14
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    CHAPTER 1: FITMENT

    DISCLAIMER: We believe that if you're running a stock 16V 4AG, or a 20V with a low profile waterline kit, then you’ll be able to fit the kit on with less effort than us. Although the SS Works waterline kit is a work of art, it did add to our fitment work, as well as making the possibility of an intake side starter impossible.

    INDEX OF STEPS
    Step 1: Test fit the adapter plate to the transmission
    Step 2: Test fit the starter
    Step 3: Test fit the adapter plate to the engine
    Step 4: Test fit the bellhousing to the adapter plate on the engine
    Step 5: Test fit the empty transmission case to the engine with the transmission crossmember
    Step 6: Weld up the them holes you done did son...
    Step 7: Final considerations for CHAPTER 1: FITMENT
    Last edited by Serendipity; 02-13-2018 at 09:09 AM.

  15. #15
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    STEP 1: TEST FIT THE ADAPTER PLATE TO THE TRANSMISSION
    -Take out your old T50, and try not to die of excitement.
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    -Bolt the adapter plate on to the transmission
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    Last edited by Serendipity; 01-27-2018 at 08:16 PM.

  16. #16
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    STEP 2: TEST FIT THE STARTER

    -Cue Jungle Music

    -Mark the areas that interfere with the starter
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    -Grind to fit
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    -Remove the plate on the back of the starter
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    -Bolt on starter
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    -Manually press the pinion out to see if the clearance is enough. DO NOT SKIP THIS STEP! If there are no issues with the pinion clearance, then you can attach jumper cables to the solenoid to perform a final clearance test.


    Get ready for it...
    Attachment 15664
    Last edited by Serendipity; 02-13-2018 at 10:04 AM.

  17. #17
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    STEP 3: TEST FIT THE ADAPTER PLATES TO THE ENGINE

    -Seat the two engine dowels so that they don?t protrude past the adapter plate.
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    -Test fit the adapter plate and dust shield. We couldn?t get ours on because it touched the waterline kit (notice the engine dowel unable to seat). Again, if you?re using a lower profile kit, then you can probably skip much of this step. The intake side starter groove on the bellhousing also fouls against the floor. More on that later.
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    -"Cut, blend, pretend" - Warren
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    -Partially fitted:
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    -It?s on, but still touching:
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    -Final fit:
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  18. #18
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    STEP 4: TEST FIT THE BELLHOUSING TO THE ADAPTER PLATE ON THE ENGINE

    Some pictures posted on the SQ site (2 of a J160G and 1 of a J160S) explained what kind of mods the bellhousing would need.
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    However, there were a couple variables that weren’t mentioned, such as whether engine crossmember spacers were used or which engine mounts were used in those cases.

    By using Cusco engine mounts, which are 10mm lower in height than OEM/TRD, the bellhousing can fit without having to use crossmember spacers.

    Rather than try to make our bellhousing match those in the pictures, we decided to mark all areas that interfered, and to start grinding away at them until we were able to fit the bellhousing into place on the engine. Here are the areas which touched:

    -The fuel lines and starter groove. As stated above, the side starter groove also needs some fitting. This step was partially because of our waterline kit, but also due to clearance issues in the trans tunnel:
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    -The driver’s side transmission tunnel:
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    -The top of the transmission tunnel. The black line marks where the tunnel hits the bellhousing:
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    This is where we kept removing material until it became clear that something more drastic needed to be done. Then, Warren said, “I hope this bellhousing wasn’t expensive...”:
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    Last edited by Serendipity; 02-13-2018 at 10:03 AM.

  19. #19
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    STEP 5: TEST FIT THE EMPTY TRANSMISSION CASE TO THE ENGINE WITH THE TRANSMISSION CROSSMEMBER

    The SQ mount is well made. The holes were drilled before the metal was bent to shape, so they need to be drilled out again to 9/16? or about 14mm. Not a big deal.
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    Here, the empty transmission shell fits right into place. There?s not much clearance on the driver's side, but with the CUSCO engine mounts, I find it hard to believe that the transmission will sway much to either side.
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    Here it is from afar. One thing that Warren and I discussed is what to do about the trans mount studs. They?re pretty long. They aren?t as low as my exhaust, but they still don?t need to be that low. More on that later...
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    Last edited by Serendipity; 02-13-2018 at 09:12 AM.

  20. #20
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    STEP 6: WELD UP THEM HOLES YOU DONE DID SON...
    Obviously, you?ll want to close up the holes in the bellhousing, but it?s interesting to note that it already has a few slits, which must be for reducing windage.

    Top plate in place:
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    Top plate prepped for welding:
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    After welding:
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